Course in music theory

[Deliberate1]

I have been a winds musician for nearly 60 years, classically trained with the transition into jazz in high school. I have played, on a generally non-professional basis, in all manners of ensembles, most recently as lead tenor/clarinetist in an 18 piece big band. Regrettably, I never had any theory training, but developed a very good ear for improvisation just by doing it.
I took up the guitar about 2.5 years ago, and have taken lessons for about two years. As time passes, I feel that my lack of theory is now a stumbling block to fully understanding what I am doing and can do with the guitar. Yes, I can memorize chord shapes and other workarounds. And my teacher occasionally interjects some theory into our lessons. But I am looking for a richer and deeper experience than that.
There certainly is no shortage vids or books on the subject. Too many, in fact. What I think would serve me best is a structured on-line course, even through a university, that would introduce the right concepts at the right time. In fact, I will be exploring any open university classes. But, in the meantime, I'd be pleased to hear about any alternative that you have found helpful, and that may be guitar-centric.
Thanks
David

[Mandobart]

I've been getting this ad in my feed for a while. I've never followed up on it but I think Berklee is one good source for this kind of training.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

I've been getting this ad in my feed for a while. I've never followed up on it but I think Berklee is one good source for this kind of training.

Perfect timing, so to speak. Just before I saw your post, I took the Berklee "placement test." The recommendation was a course in Musical shoe tying (my total lack of bass clef knowledge killed my score).
David

[rick-slo]

"Music Theory for Idiots" books are pretty good being more generally useful with less confusing arcanum you will likely never have use for.
Other for idiot books more aimed to guitarists are out there but I think the general one overall better.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I have been a winds musician for nearly 60 years, classically trained with the transition into jazz in high school. I have played, on a generally non-professional basis, in all manners of ensembles, most recently as lead tenor/clarinetist in an 18 piece big band. Regrettably, I never had any theory training, but developed a very good ear for improvisation just by doing it.
I took up the guitar about 2.5 years ago, and have taken lessons for about two years. As time passes, I feel that my lack of theory is now a stumbling block to fully understanding what I am doing and can do with the guitar. Yes, I can memorize chord shapes and other workarounds. And my teacher occasionally interjects some theory into our lessons. But I am looking for a richer and deeper experience than that.
There certainly is no shortage vids or books on the subject. Too many, in fact. What I think would serve me best is a structured on-line course, even through a university, that would introduce the right concepts at the right time. In fact, I will be exploring any open university classes. But, in the meantime, I'd be pleased to hear about any alternative that you have found helpful, and that may be guitar-centric.
Thanks
David

Hi David
I have a college degree in music, classroom teaching, and my minor was music theory, both theoretical and practical. And practical theory is all the deeper you probably need to go.

In five years of music theory classes, NEVER was theory taught, or even mentioned from a guitar perspective.

Music theory is probably best learned on a piano/keyboard. Scales are laid out visually, and physically encountered in a more understandable fashion on piano.

And once learned it is universally applicable to all/any instruments. I am referencing Western Music Theory here not Middle Eastern or other forms of music where we get into fractions of pitches etc.

I'd suggest checking into any Junior Colleges in your area to see if they offer theory classes. Perhaps you can get enough just reading about it in books or watching video. Rick Beato offers theory classes on YouTube (paid).

Hope this helps…

[tbirdman]

I first bought a book on music theory as I was frustrated by my guitar instructor who couldn't explain what he meant by intervals of thirds.

Then I purchased an inexpensive music theory from Justin Guitar which included a PDF booklet plus online videos.

Then I took a music theory class not once but twice from my community college.

I agree where music theory is easier on a keyboard. I discovered that as I'm learning a little keyboard now. Everything is laid out in a linear fashion.

In the process I learned how to sight read.

I found that learning from different sources just helped reinforced what I previously learned.

[Deliberate1]

Thanks, all, for the fine suggestions.
We do have a small upright piano in the corner of our family room that stands largely silent. But just one look at it and you get why it is the tool for learning music theory. But when you do, of course, you must then translate what you have learned to a very differerent "keyboard." I was rather hoping to abbreviate, or combine, that process with a guitar-centric approach.
David

[tbirdman]

For $9.99, you can explore the Justin Guitar music theory course for 6 months, or you can splurge and spend 99.99 for a lifetime subscription.. Of course guitar centric. https://www.justinguitar.com/classes...n-music-theory

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

Thanks, all, for the fine suggestions.
We do have a small upright piano in the corner of our family room that stands largely silent. But just one look at it and you get why it is the tool for learning music theory.

I don't think it necessarily is. For example, visualizing things like a circle of fifths or fourths or... in how-band-people-actually-converse terms... "Do a 1-6-2-5 three times and then a two-major to a 5" is a lot easier for me to visualize on a fretboard. Easier to transpose, too.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I don't think it necessarily is. For example, visualizing things like a circle of fifths or fourths or... in how-band-people-actually-converse terms... "Do a 1-6-2-5 three times and then a two-major to a 5" is a lot easier for me to visualize on a fretboard. Easier to transpose, too.

Hi BH
If all there was to theory was chord progressions, you'd be onto something.

[rick-slo]

Much of music "theory" presented in theory books involves memorizing facts. Those facts can help you recognize
the elements and structure of what you listen to, more readily put together something of your own, converse with
it that way.

Regarding "theoretical" discussions one is more likely to get into the use of factoids

[RichardN]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi David
I have a college degree in music, classroom teaching, and my minor was music theory, both theoretical and practical. And practical theory is all the deeper you probably need to go.

In five years of music theory classes, NEVER was theory taught, or even mentioned from a guitar perspective.

Music theory is probably best learned on a piano/keyboard. Scales are laid out visually, and physically encountered in a more understandable fashion on piano.

And once learned it is universally applicable to all/any instruments. I am referencing Western Music Theory here not Middle Eastern or other forms of music where we get into fractions of pitches etc.

I'd suggest checking into any Junior Colleges in your area to see if they offer theory classes. Perhaps you can get enough just reading about it in books or watching video. Rick Beato offers theory classes on YouTube (paid).

Hope this helps…

I think one of the things the piano and guitar have in common is that you can literally see every note, whether a keyboard or a fretboard. For that reason it seems that understanding theory for either instrument would be about the same.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by RichardN

I think one of the things the piano and guitar have in common is that you can literally see every note, whether a keyboard or a fretboard. For that reason it seems that understanding theory for either instrument would be about the same.

Hi Richard…

One difference (a major one) between guitar (orchestral strings, mandolins etc) and other instruments is the exact same note on a stringed instrument can be played/sounded in several places on the fingerboard (even on different strings), whereas a note on a score can only be played on one specific key on a piano, or primary fingering for trumpet, clarinet, etc.

Understanding Musical Notation, including notes, note values, key and time signatures, scale work, chords, arpeggios, tempo, dynamics (and being able to apply them to one's instrument) is essential to music theory. Music theory is to music what grammar is to language.

Music theory elements combined with Notation gave us the first transferrable and repeatable versions of songs, and allowed other people to share music apart from learning it directly from the person who wrote that music in the first place. People who went to Sousa's concerts in the late 1800s had to buy a book of scores for piano and play them at home if they wanted to remember the songs in detail after attending a concert.

I personally do not think every musician needs to know theory.

People can be taught scales, notes, chords, tempo, rhythm, keys, styles etc. without ever writing things down.

And with modern audio and video recording, we can demonstrate, teach (learn) music without the use of paper.

It's an interesting and continually evolving topic, which I find interesting to discuss.

[Llewlyn]

Another vote for Justin theory course, especially if you are a beginner. I would avoid Berklee or other formal courses, because professional education needs to be very comprehensive so they "dilute" the important bits over several years on study.

Also, I recommend putting into practice every bit you learn (Justin is a great teacher). For example, learn what a dominant chord is and listen to the tension, then identify tension-resolution in the chord patterns you already know. If you like blues/rock, learn the pentatonic minor scale: when you improve by ear, try to see what part of the phrase is on the pentatonic and what is outside.

Also, ask on this forum all the theory Qs you have

Ll.

[hubcapsc]

I like Paul Davids' youtube theory videos because...

I like Paul Davids videos.
The theory ones leave you with little snippets of stuff to think about later.

I like Rick Beato youtube theory videos because...

I like Rick Beato videos.
He's the real deal when it comes to depth of knowledge about a lot of stuff.
I do manage to learn stuff from his theory videos, but there's never going to
come a time when I have all that down and need more.

-Mike