Loop pedal or Backing Tracks

[slewis]

Originally Posted by el_kabong

. Still.....there's not much difference, technologically speaking, between playing an electronic instrument, such as a synthesizer, and triggering samples, whatever the type.

Not sure I'm understanding this, but I see a world of difference between a human being playing any instrument, electronic or otherwise, and a button being pushed to trigger some recorded music. The latter of which I'm no fan of. I just prefer my live music to be all-live.

As pointed out in various posts here, looping can be very simple and transparent -- such as with a lead played over a looped song verse -- or very complex and prominent in a performance, where layer by layer by layer is built up and then used in the song. Or something in-between. I'm also not a big fan of the built-up layered stuff, but I do appreciate the talent and technical ability that goes into it, for sure. It does offer a different dynamic in a solo performance, of course, but I think it can quickly be overused. To each his/her own, of course; some people might marvel over and over at songs that are done this way all night long. Others have said that even just looping simple leads is gimmicky and doesn't add anything to a song, which I'd also heartily disagree with -- I think it also adds another dynamic to a performance, and many audiences certainly appreciate being able to hear a signature lead part in cover songs. And in my original tunes, I'd hope my lopped leads are just as valuable a part of the song as the lead in any other tune.... All in all, I guess, another case of To Each His Own, it would seem!

[grathan]

I know your leaning towards a looper someone mentioned Logic already, but I don't think loopers can come close to what a computer can do.

If you find yourself playing near a computer to study chord charts or songs then a DAW might be a better investment than a pedal.

Here is an example that has a 60 day demo and then only costs $60 afterwards.
http://www.reaper.fm/index.php


I use a program called Sonar, but with it I can:
-create my own backing track.
-You can add on almost unlimited number of overdub tracks.
-You could import an existing song and play along, or perhaps slow it down to learn parts.
-add software drums or bass to songs( additional software may be required)
- add effects on after recording, like chorus or reverb to see how it sounds.
- more robust programs allow for both video and sound editing, so you could record and edit a video which could be a useful performance or instructional tool.
-with a DAW you can save massive amounts of old loops and organize them into computer folders where loopers may be fairly limited when saving old loops/songs

[el_kabong]

Originally Posted by slewis

Not sure I'm understanding this, but I see a world of difference between a human being playing any instrument, electronic or otherwise, and a button being pushed to trigger some recorded music. The latter of which I'm no fan of. I just prefer my live music to be all-live.

As pointed out in various posts here, looping can be very simple and transparent -- such as with a lead played over a looped song verse -- or very complex and prominent in a performance, where layer by layer by layer is built up and then used in the song. Or something in-between. I'm also not a big fan of the built-up layered stuff, but I do appreciate the talent and technical ability that goes into it, for sure. It does offer a different dynamic in a solo performance, of course, but I think it can quickly be overused. To each his/her own, of course; some people might marvel over and over at songs that are done this way all night long. Others have said that even just looping simple leads is gimmicky and doesn't add anything to a song, which I'd also heartily disagree with -- I think it also adds another dynamic to a performance, and many audiences certainly appreciate being able to hear a signature lead part in cover songs. And in my original tunes, I'd hope my lopped leads are just as valuable a part of the song as the lead in any other tune.... All in all, I guess, another case of To Each His Own, it would seem!

Sean - Sorry, had to take a little 1000 mile road trip this weekend, but see now that you responded to my earlier comment.

I think, possibly, we're making more-or-less the same point....one which is often noted in regard to looping, but which applies to any music, really. Which is...dynamics matter.

My point about the use of any recorded (or sampled) sounds - be they 5 milliseconds or 5 seconds in length, whether recorded ahead of time or "on the fly" - is that it's always down to the musician's artistic vision and talent.

I almost used the old player-piano as a metaphor, but rather think that the orchestra is, possibly, more apt. You can think of each individual player as being a repository of sounds that, for each performance, have been programmed by the sheet music, but are being triggered in real-time by the conductor, who might also be thought to be controlling the dynamics of the performance.

Regardless of whether you love or hate classical music, few would argue that it, somehow, "isn't music". The composition matters, of course, but the success of the performance may depend more on the dynamics elicited by the conductor....else it would be no more dynamic than a player piano.

Loopers are just tools. I'd be interested in knowing more about how folks are using them.

[RTA48]

I find this to be a very subjective subject. There is a small room here in Houston "Mucky Ducks" and I have heard Bob Schneider several times, using backing tracks thru his Ipad along with a looper at times. Its a very enjoyable small environment and makes for a pleasurable evening.

I have found that using a looper at home has helped me alot with working over lead lines. A nice background just seems to help. YMMV

[slewis]

RTA, it is indeed a very subjective subject. I personally can't stand hearing a live performer presenting prerecorded music to me in a performance. But it's a fact that some people don't mind it at all, from what I've read here on the AGF. Not to divert the thread though -- both loopers and playing to music -- in my case it was the radio, records and cassettes, mostly! -- are great learning tools, and loopers IMO can also really enhance a live performance.

[MikeBmusic]

A very touchy subject!
Last year I tried using some backing tracks (with iPod) for a couple of my originals - only once per show. I recently got a looper and used it last week for 2 songs. I think using backing tracks - or looper- sparingly can really enhance an otherwise solo-1 guitar show. But used to excess, it becomes 'background noise' - people stop paying attention as soon as they hear the 'band' start playing.

[el_kabong]

May or may not be relevant to this discussion, but a long-time working blues musician friend of mine sent me a link to this article yesterday, which describes the present ascendency of EDM style entertainment and the corresponding decline in styles that utilize (mostly electric) guitar.

One quote from the article: Don’t get me wrong, I’m in the music business up to my ears every day and I’m totally aware that EDM has become both a phenomenon and a giant money maker over the last three or four years in terms of live events. I’m also more than aware that over the last two years elements of EDM have permeated the Top 40 charts on the vast majority of hits. You have to be completely musically unconscious to not to have seen and heard that. The final point the author makes, though, is that even these trends are often cyclical and we may yet see a return to more traditional styles....even, 80's hair metal, ha, ha.

So, I mean, issues of taste aside, this is the present state of popular music...both stylistically and technologically. The same fellow (who sent me the article) has stated that venues have repeatedly offered to pay him more if he had the capability to use a looper and/or backing track elements in his act.

Some may not like it, but that is where we're at. Like others here, I've sometimes cringed at the specter of a bunch of pale, skinny, emo-types on stage tapping (even with great intensity ) on their iPads (or whatever). While I continue to cherish more traditional styles, I also believe that there is (and always has been) artistic value (and even cultural relevance) in using the latest technology.

And, if memory serves, I seem to recall Bob Dylan making a similar decision.

[gdbird]

I read the article...thought provoking....and I love your screen name. I had almost forgotten that one.

[kmcmichael]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Which Looper is really about what you want to do with it.

For live work, not worrying about prerecorded loops, everybody seems to say the Boomerang is best. But it's expensive.

That being said, I do think that if you're using a looper primary to keep the chords going while you solo, there's not too much point. People aren't that interested in your solos. My preference for a looper over tracks is because the looper allows you to do so much more than that - to really build something where the audience might not even notice that you're looping at first, but it becomes more and more and more.

I sort of disagree. Many do not care about your solos, this is true. It is also true that many do not care about your singing. Often a solo act is merely backgound for an event.

I try to see as many solo acts as possible. Often it would be good to hear anything different. How many have you seen that seem to be doing the same song over and over as they only have one style of singing.

I tend to have a few guitar players at my gigs the talk about this solo or that on break. So I guess it can be a double edge sword.

I also use a harmonizer and get a lot of compiments on some tunes for that.

Everbody has thier own thing. I try to entertain the best way I can.

[slewis]

I just decided to not post what I wrote, because, despite doing my best to be respectful and accepting of others' opinions, which I am, it would just P-O a lot of people and turn into a mess. Life's too short.

Have a great night!

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by slewis

I just decided to not post what I wrote, because, despite doing my best to be respectful and accepting of others' opinions, which I am, it would just P-O a lot of people and turn into a mess. Life's too short.



Have a great night!

Slew, no worries man. From your videos, I think we do quite similar solo performances. If it works for you and gets you gigs, no worries what others think. Cheers!

[gigmaster]

It depends on the show I've been booked for. I use backing tracks sometimes, but they are all me. I make them myself (via Garageband, and mix down to iTunes). I use my iPad with BackTrax, and OnSong to run them onstage.

Some gigs I am booked for are just easy lounge acoustic gigs. Some are where people may want to dance. I go by the audience. Sometimes I mix them.

I don't use loopers because they take too long in-between songs to set up. I do a flowing show, with minimal talk, fiddling around, etc...between songs.

There is nothing wrong with using tracks, especially if you make them yourself. It's been my experience that most players who object to tracks are either jealous because you have more or better equipment then they do, or they don't have the necessary skills to play with tracks and make them sound good. It's tough, if you do it right. You have to be able to play in-time with the tracks, have your instrument perfectly tuned, remember the exact arraignment, and play it perfect every time. They also have to be mixed with your live instruments and vocals so that they do not sound like tracks, or karaoke. Definitely a few cuts above the garageband-level, which is where most of the bands and players I hear live are at.

If your playing skills are not in the top 40% in your area, you'll be better off sticking to loopers. If you mess up with tracks, they don't cover for you or stop. You're on your own. If you mess up with a loop, you can stop it, keep playing, and start it again when it comes back around.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by gdbird

Does anyone use either...both? Thoughts...

[joeguam]

Originally Posted by gigmaster

...most players who object to tracks are either jealous because you have more or better equipment then they do, or they don't have the necessary skills to play with tracks and make them sound good.

The word “tracks” could also be replaced with the word “loopers” in the above statement and be true for some.

I appreciate musicians who do either, especially (as you also said) the ones who record the tracks themselves or the ones who take extra effort to perfect their looping craft.

[Nymuso]

I have a looper function on my multi effects pedal. I use it for sound check so I can hear how the guitar sounds from out in the room, and I use it for exactly one song on my set list.

There are some good looper acts. I find them interesting. For a few minutes. Then I find them tedious as they lay down layered loops for each song. And then there are some not so good looper acts. I can't tolerate them.

Backing tracks: Same as with loopers - effective if not over done.

[Slim]

gdbird,
If you ever want to use a looper with a band, consider getting one with tap tempo. I have never had a band stay in the same exact tempo from beginning to end of a song.