Has Taylor cut back on their 12 string selection?

[Neil K Walk]

Despite 2020 being a horrific year our family has weathered quite well financially and I was thinking of petitioning for a 12 string for my birthday in July. I'd gotten the twinge when I played a 458 a couple of years ago so the rosewood version of that model was near the top of my list. I've searched online and all I've found are grand concert sized 12 strings which I am not a fan of. I typically feel that 12 strings need to have the added bass of a bigger body so I'm kind of disappointed. Even the GA size 254ce came across as lacking in balance to my preferences.

What gives? Is this a temporary thing due to decreases demand or has Taylor decided to focus more on smaller body 12 strings?

Semi OT - should I look at the Guild F-1512 rosewood instead? It doesn't have to be a Taylor and laminated back & sides are not a deal breaker.

[Brucebubs]

Yes that Taylor 458R was the pick in the Grand Orchestra 12-string line up.

Martin have just announced a brand new 12-string model for NAMM 2021 - the Grand J-16E
https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars...16e-12-string/

[donlyn]

Has Taylor cut back on their 12 string selection?

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

Despite 2020 being a horrific year our family has weathered quite well financially and I was thinking of petitioning for a 12 string for my birthday in July. I'd gotten the twinge when I played a 458 a couple of years ago so the rosewood version of that model was near the top of my list. I've searched online and all I've found are grand concert sized 12 strings which I am not a fan of. I typically feel that 12 strings need to have the added bass of a bigger body so I'm kind of disappointed. Even the GA size 254ce came across as lacking in balance to my preferences.

What gives? Is this a temporary thing due to decreases demand or has Taylor decided to focus more on smaller body 12 strings?

Semi OT - should I look at the Guild F-1512 rosewood instead? It doesn't have to be a Taylor and laminated back & sides are not a deal breaker.

Neil,

Fact : Just checked the Taylor website, and the only Grand Orchestra 12 string available is the 858e (spruce over rosewood). Still shows X-braced in the specs. The 458e-R (R=rosewood) has been discontinued.

Conjecture : Taylor is always up to something, so who knows what will show up at any given time. Seems that about 5 years ago they set about re-establishing their presence in the 12 string arena. They may cycle back to something like that again.

Personal opinion and thoughts : I have a 458e-R, and it is everything you could wish for and more from a 12 string. And it is a light build too. If you can swallow the price, the 858e would be a great instrument to own. It was on my radar, but I had retired and couldn't afford one. Then came the 458e-R, and one showed up used for a really good price, so it is mine now.

I did look into the 12 fret 12 strings, played a bunch of them, and might have been tempted for the cedar/mahogany one. But then the 458e hove into view, and blew me away with a broadside of sound. And I still have an oar in the water for that 12 fret GC 12er, but not new.

Two day story : About 40+ years ago, I did try a Martin dread 12 that I would have bought, but I was a dollar+ short, and that became 1 day late. Literally.

Bruce likes his Martin and Guild 12 stringers, and he would be a better resource for questions on them. Buddy of mine used to busk in the subway station with a maple Guild 12 that echoed off the walls. And so did his voice.

Don
.

[27R]

Here in the UK a lot of the what-appear-to-be-now-discontinued 12-string models have been in clearance sales for the past year or so. Nearly grabbed one a couple times but always held back because the available body sizes were a bit smaller than I'd like in a 12, and I missed a bigger one for simply being too slow.

So anyway, that would indicate to me that they weren't selling that well - I suppose 12s just don't as a matter of course next to 6s, but if a rethink is on the cards maybe they'll pick up again.

[619TF]

No offense but why not just pick up a used 458R if that's the one you liked? You'll save a couple of bucks AND get the guitar you want.

[donlyn]

Has Taylor cut back on their 12 string selection?

Originally Posted by 27R

Here in the UK a lot of the what-appear-to-be-now-discontinued 12-string models have been in clearance sales for the past year or so. Nearly grabbed one a couple times but always held back because the available body sizes were a bit smaller than I'd like in a 12, and I missed a bigger one for simply being too slow.

So anyway, that would indicate to me that they weren't selling that well - I suppose 12s just don't as a matter of course next to 6s, but if a rethink is on the cards maybe they'll pick up again.

Originally Posted by 619TF

No offense but why not just pick up a used 458R if that's the one you liked? You'll save a couple of bucks AND get the guitar you want.

Thing is that you can't just go out and grab a Taylor 458e-R. They've been discontinued. Only Grand Orchestra 12 string still made is an 818e, as I mentioned two posts ago. 'X-braced' according to the Taylor site.

And as for not selling well, the demand for 12 string guitars is is far less than the demand for 6 string guitars. Clearance sales don't necessarily mean they are bad instruments, but that the dealers need to move older unsold inventory to stock current models. And those particular sale instruments might not be what you wanted.

I guess the moral is if you see one you want, snap it up, don't wait. Used or new. My 458e-R was 'experienced', but so what? That model wasn't around for very long. And I got a really good deal buying 'used' for a fine instrument in great condition.

Don
.

[RRick]

I love the sound of a 12 string and disappointed that Taylor’s “stock” versions are small body Grand Concert series. If/when it is time to buy, and they do not have a medium or large body 12 string as a stock item, I will contact my dealer to find out if a custom order medium to large body is a viable alternative.

Does anybody know how Taylor custom order pricing compares to their stock counterparts? I would be happy with a "minimally appointed" 12 string with mahogany top, blackwood back/sides (like my 327).

According to page 7 of their 2019 "Find Your Fit Quick Guide", the Grand Symphony body is a good fit for 12 string.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/...urFit_2019.pdf

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by 619TF

No offense but why not just pick up a used 458R if that's the one you liked? You'll save a couple of bucks AND get the guitar you want.

Originally Posted by donlyn

Has Taylor cut back on their 12 string selection?






Thing is that you can't just go out and grab a Taylor 458e-R. They've been discontinued. Only Grand Orchestra 12 string still made is an 818e, as I mentioned two posts ago. 'X-braced' according to the Taylor site.

And as for not selling well, the demand for 12 string guitars is is far less than the demand for 6 string guitars. Clearance sales don't necessarily mean they are bad instruments, but that the dealers need to move older unsold inventory to stock current models. And those particular sale instruments might not be what you wanted.

I guess the moral is if you see one you want, snap it up, don't wait. Used or new. My 458e-R was 'experienced', but so what? That model wasn't around for very long. And I got a really good deal buying 'used' for a fine instrument in great condition.

Don
.

Exactly, the 458E-R was a limited run and they just around out there in the used market. If I come across one and hesitate only to have it disappear then that's my fault. Also, frankly I'm not a fan of the V bracing. I just like the feel of the Taylor necks. That's all.

...that Martin J-16 though. As a satisfied D-16GT owner that might actually fit the bill. The 16 series have been a good "bang for the buck" IME.

[RRick]

I have contacted a Taylor custom dealer to see if they can provide a price for the 456R and/or 458R. The USD list price for the Martin HD12-18 is $3200 and Gibson Songwriter 12 is $3300 so I want to see how a Taylor custom compares to these two. I'll post whenever I get a reply.

[619TF]

As a limited run they're obviously rarer but they do show up on the used market. There's one right now on Reverb (repeated on eBay) and there's been a few completed sales as listed. When buying any guitar patience in finding the one you want is key. The old Taylor 12s are out there if you look.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by RRick

I have contacted a Taylor custom dealer to see if they can provide a price for the 456R and/or 458R. The USD list price for the Martin HD12-18 is $3200 and Gibson Songwriter 12 is $3300 so I want to see how a Taylor custom compares to these two. I'll post whenever I get a reply.

IIRC the price for a 456/458 was around $2K list.

[RRick]

Originally Posted by RRick

I have contacted a Taylor custom dealer to see if they can provide a price for the 456R and/or 458R. The USD list price for the Martin HD12-18 is $3200 and Gibson Songwriter 12 is $3300 so I want to see how a Taylor custom compares to these two. I'll post whenever I get a reply.

According Taylor's reply to a custom dealer, a 456 or 458 is not available to order in the custom line. It appears Taylor may offer a 12 string 800 series next year. Maybe they are referring to the 858e that is on their website? You can find it on the website but it is not on their 2020 price list:

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...c/858e#options

https://www.taylorguitars.com/sites/...March-2020.pdf

So it appears the only available solid wood 12 strings from Taylor are currently limited to the Grand Concert small body (XX2), even though their 2019 “Find Your Fit” guide shows the Grand Symphony medium body (XX6) to be a “good fit” for 12 string. Anyway, that is all I was able to find. It will be interesting to see the price for the Taylor 12 string if/when it is available. Maybe if I start saving now...

[Glennwillow]

I did find a listing for a used Taylor 458e-R for sale from a music store here. The price seems a little steep for a used guitar, but it's listed as "excellent" condition.

- Glenn

[Taylor Ham]

+1 for the used market at the moment. It took a year for the grand concert 12 strings to follow the introduction of V class bracing to that body shape. Given that the larger GS and GO shapes got V bracing after that, and Taylor has focused on releasing the American dream and GT in the meantime, it may be a bit longer before we see larger body 12 string taylors again.

[RRick]

I have loved the sound of a 12 string guitar since at least the mid-70's. Since I am a beginner, and do not feel good enough to warrant a really good 12 string, I am looking at this as incentive to progress (and save). If/when a larger Taylor is available maybe I'll be ready and it will be safe to try Martin HD12-28, Gibson Songwriter 12, or Guild F512 as well.