To electrify, or not to electrify?

[nightchef]

I’ve just bought my first multi-$K guitar ever — nothing boutique-y, just a Martin HD-28, but it’s more than twice as much as I’ve ever spent on an instrument before. So I’m trying to be a little more cognizant of preserving its value.

With that in mind, I’m starting to think about whether to add a pickup, and if so, what kind. It’s not a question I need to answer immediately, since it will be a while before gigging as we know it recommences. But that just means I have more time to obsess.

I have an Eastman E10OM with an Anthem SL installed—this is my go-to acoustic for moderate-to-high-volume gigs, so when I gig with the Martin it will mostly be in more intimate, coffeehouse-type settings.

So, two questions:

1) For those of you doing coffeehouse-type gigs (low volume solo, duo or small acoustic group), is a pickup mandatory, or can you still get away with needing a microphone? If the latter, do you bring your own mic or take the luck of the house draw?

2) If I need a pickup, what would people recommend for this guitar? I like the Anthem for the Eastman, but that guitar has a focused, mid-forward sound that’s quite different from (and delightfully complementary to) the HD-28’s boom-and-sparkle rosewood dread thing. Does the Anthem also work well for the latter kind of sound? How have people fared with K&K or Schatten pickups? Any other alternatives I should be thinking about?

Thanks all!

[hubcapsc]

The fellow who had my d-28 before me put a K&K in it and got
one with a 1/8 plug so that the hole for the end-pin didn't have to
be drilled out. Installation of a K&K doesn't seem very invasive,
and even less so with the 1/8 plug.

I'd try a microphone before I put a pickup in a guitar, but since
I don't have the much experience playing amplified, that might
not be a realistic opinion...

-Mike

[Mandobart]

I picked up a nearly mint condition used HD-28 last March. I usually install twin head JJB passive piezo SBT's in all my instruments.

I didn't want to drill out the tapered end pin hole for a switch jack so I installed a Tapastring vintage jack. It takes a 3 mm (some people call it 1/8") plug vs 1/4" so I soldered up a cord to fit. Alternately you can buy adapters and cords from Tapastring.

I install the pickup heads to the bridge plate using blue-tak putty. The entire installation is 100% reversible. I've got some instruments that have had this type of installation for over 10 years, trouble-free. Absolutely no audible affect on the unplugged acoustic sound.

[Gordon Currie]

If you are considering the K+K, look at the James May Ultratonic. It is all the good aspects of a K+K while fixing the bad ones.

I happen to like the Schatten HFN, however some people find it loses too much bass response. I'm not a fan of big bass on SBTs so it works well for me, especially live where unforeseeable bass buildup can be a disaster.

To me, the ultimate SBT is Dazzo. They aren't as well known as K+K (what is?) but they are the best I've heard yet. Many people find they don't need to use much, if any, EQ to get the best tone.

[hubcapsc]

To me, the ultimate SBT is Dazzo. They aren't as well known as K+K (what is?) but they are the best I've heard yet. Many people find they don't need to use much, if any, EQ to get the best tone.

The fellow who installed the K&K in the guitar I have now put two near
the treble side and one near the bass side, they're not equally spread out
like in the picture on the K&K web site... is that analog EQ ?

-Mike

[T.Lime]

For small intimate gigs a mic can be the best bet..... but there are caveats:
the mic itself.. a good mic will enhance a not so good mic will be worse than a pickup.... so bring your own..
Poisition.. even a good mic will need to be positioned correctly, according to the space you are in...
you will have to stay in roughly the same spot...
A good mic is not cheap.. but you can find excellent ones such as the Avantone ck-1 for around $150... less used

so all in all a pickup is much more convenient.. that does not mean it gives you the best sound....
a really high quality soundhole pick up can work and you can take it off without any structural changes to the guitar...
other than that a Dazzo, or ( my fave) a Trance Audio Amulet both come very close to reproducing the acoustic sound... and both will require no , or very little , processing such as compression or EQ...

[Methos1979]

In the same boat as you. No gigging, no open mics due to pandemic. I have my gigging guitar for my acoustic duo with my wife which is the fabulous Cole Clark with it's proprietary 3-way pickup system. Nothing better for amplifying at our gigs, including and especially open mics where the sound system and host is often a wild card. That said, I bought a brand new custom Martin dread last December before the pandemic hit intending to keep it all acoustic but I also wanted the ability to take it the occasional open mic to show it off to friends so I ended up auditioning magnetic sound hole pickups (for their minimal intrusion) and settled on the K&K Double Helix Solo which I still like a lot. Then this year I just picked up my 'dream/retirement/someday' guitar, a Froggy Bottom H-12. Even used it's the most expensive guitar I own and I almost immediately thought about what type of pickup I might want to install. But I've decided to just leave it all acoustic. Using a mic at an open mic or live gig is complicated. I have gone to a few open mics where the person running it knows enough about how to properly mic a guitar and get it to work. So if I ever do take the Frog out it would be to one of those.

As for pickup suggestions for your guitar - tough call. I used K&K Pure Mini's for years and accepted the challenges of getting great tone and dealing with feedback. I tried both the passive and active HFN back when it was the flavor of the month but just couldn't get a tone that worked for me. What I found in my search is that almost all single source pickups need at least some and often a lot of 'help' in the form of a preamp for EQ and gain. If you resign yourself to that then it's just a matter of identifying your particular tone needs which is often dictated in part by the guitar, the material you tend to play and last your playing style and then picking the pickup system best for you. Personally since finding Cole Clark for my gigging guitars, I'll never bother with an aftermarket pickup system again unless it's a multi-source system with onboard preamp and EQ which doesn't help you with your HD28. If it was me, I'd look hard at the LR Baggs Anthem. I recently heard a shootout of several guitars and that system sounded great, even when compared to a Cole Clark and also the Trance Amulet system, which is also very highly thought of.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

If you are considering the K+K, look at the James May Ultratonic. It is all the good aspects of a K+K while fixing the bad ones.

I put a K&K in my HD-28V, but if I were to do it today I'd install the Ultra Tonic. I still might install the conversion kit one of these days.

[nightchef]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I went to the James May site to check out the audio samples. I’m glad I checked out all of them, because the steel-string samples nearer the top of the demo page don’t float my boat at all — they sound nasal and very artificial to my ear. But then the Aaron Short samples at the bottom of the page sound quite nice. Almost hard to believe it’s the same pickup.

It looks like it would be a bit of a bear to install, given that I assume it’s critical to have the sensor line up exactly beneath the saddle? So I would definitely want to find a tech who had done these before. (Kind of like surgery!)

Methos1979 — I’m a big Anthem fan (I have one installed in my Eastman OM, which is my main gigging guitar), and I may yet go that route. The more I think about it, though, the more I’m leaning away from a UST for this particular guitar — it is for me kind of what that Froggy Bottom is for you, my ultimate-splurge guitar, and I’d rather find a lower-impact solution if I can. So I want to take a long look at SBTs and magnetics before I give in and go with the Anthem.

On the SBT front, I’ve never liked the sound of K&K samples I’ve heard; Schatten seems somewhat better, and those Aaron Short Ultra Tonic clips surprised me—that’s very similar to the Anthem sound I like, balanced through the mids with a clean, open quality on top.

I’ve also heard a few magnetic soundhole pickup samples that sounded surprisingly good, particularly the Baggs models.

About that Tapastring jack — that’s a very appealing solution. One question: the site says “The "Vintage Jack" is securely retained by the taper fit of the mating parts -- no adhesives required.” Can any users attest to this? Intuitively, it seems like you’d be pulling out the jack every time you pulled out a cable, unless you held the jack down with your other hand. Is friction really enough to hold it in place?

So many choices, so little time (and $!).

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by nightchef

Methos1979 — I’m a big Anthem fan (I have one installed in my Eastman OM, which is my main gigging guitar), and I may yet go that route. The more I think about it, though, the more I’m leaning away from a UST for this particular guitar — it is for me kind of what that Froggy Bottom is for you, my ultimate-splurge guitar, and I’d rather find a lower-impact solution if I can. So I want to take a long look at SBTs and magnetics before I give in and go with the Anthem.

I’ve also heard a few magnetic soundhole pickup samples that sounded surprisingly good, particularly the Baggs models.

Speaking of Aaron and his reviews, he did one some time back about an inexpensive pickup called the Cling On. It's a little soundboard contact pickup that contacts the outside of your guitar via a magnet that mounts on the inside. So it's really easy to just pop it on for those occasional times when you want to amplify with minimal anything in your guitar. He was quite surprised with how good it sounded. And at $69 you can't beat the price. I might give that a try. I figure if I use it with my little EDM-1 preamp and can get passable tone for open mics that might be just the ticket.

CLING ON Acoustic Pickup With Ultra Quick Magnetic Attachment

As for sound hole magnetic pickups, if you haven't done so already, check out Dieter's demo on the K&K website for the Double Helix Solo. I tried a whole bunch of magnetic sound hole pickups including the Baggs M80, Black Angel and Schertler AG-6 with S-MIC and I liked the K&K the best. It's got a two position switch which is great for changing between strumming with a pick and fingerstyle playing, if you do that sort of thing. The difference tonally between the switch positions is stunning. That's what I use in my Martin Custom D-1 dread.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by nightchef

About that Tapastring jack — that’s a very appealing solution. One question: the site says “The "Vintage Jack" is securely retained by the taper fit of the mating parts -- no adhesives required.” Can any users attest to this? Intuitively, it seems like you’d be pulling out the jack every time you pulled out a cable, unless you held the jack down with your other hand. Is friction really enough to hold it in place?

Yes, the Tapastring vintage jack is secure. More importantly, for most all fiddles, mandolins and many guitars including your HD-28, the only thing holding your tapered end pin in place is friction.

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Yes, the Tapastring vintage jack is secure. More importantly, for most all fiddles, mandolins and many guitars including your HD-28, the only thing holding your tapered end pin in place is friction.

True, but holding a jack in place while a plug is being pulled out of it seems it would put more direct pressure on that friction joint than holding a guitar at the end of a strap.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by nightchef

True, but holding a jack in place while a plug is being pulled out of it seems it would put more direct pressure on that friction joint than holding a guitar at the end of a strap.

All I can tell you is I do it all the time. No problems.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by nightchef

True, but holding a jack in place while a plug is being pulled out of it seems it would put more direct pressure on that friction joint than holding a guitar at the end of a strap.

Tapers are used for holding many power tool accessories in place, and when the tapers a true, and the devices are properly installed, they rarely come apart on their own.

[stephenT]

I know not everyone likes soundhole pickups, but I'll offer this.

Long time Sunrise user recently converted to the Fishman Blackstack which I can install w/o slacking the strings. I can leave my guitars totally pickup-less until I need to play a gig.

I've found having the cable draped out of the soundhole (and around the strap at the heel) is no worse than having a cable coming out of the endpin jack.