Taylor guitars - saddle sanding...OK or Not?

[JackB1]

Guys I am so confused about this. In have heard conflicting info and am
Trying to get the correct info.

Is it OK to lower the action on a Taylor by sanding the saddle or MUST it be done by a Taylor authorized tech by adding or removing shins under the bolt on neck?
I don’t have a nearby authorized Taylor tech and like to do things myself. If my neck angle is correct, is there anything wrong with sanding down the saddle a bit?

Appreciate all responses. Thanks.

[ChrisN]

Here's what Taylor told me:

"But you are correct in that we set the angle first, then set the saddle height for proper string action."

So, as I said in response to another of your queries, make sure your neck angle is OK first (and use replacement shims if it needs adjustment), then sand the saddle bottom to achieve the desired action.

[jonfields45]

If ES-2, be sure to remove the PUP first.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

Here's what Taylor told me:

"But you are correct in that we set the angle first, then set the saddle height for proper string action."

So, as I said in response to another of your queries, make sure your neck angle is OK first (and use replacement shims if it needs adjustment), then sand the saddle bottom to achieve the desired action.

That’s kind of what I thought and what seems to make sense but their are Taylor purists that will say you NEVER sand down he saddle and all action adjustments are made with the neck shims.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

If ES-2, be sure to remove the PUP first.

Remove the pickup? I thought you just have to loosen the 3 little screws?

[mirwa]

I do Taylor warranty work, as mentioned above, we ensure the neck angle is correct first, remove / shim / refit as it’s a very simple process, then we work the saddle if further improvement is required.

Steve

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by mirwa

I do Taylor warranty work, as mentioned above, we ensure the neck angle is correct first, remove / shim / refit as it’s a very simple process, then we work the saddle if further improvement is required.

Steve

What makes the neck angle correct? When you put a straight edge on the neck it should meet exactly with the top of the bridge? How close is close enough?

[mirwa]

We adjust the neck for the correct desired angle, this is identified by laying a straight edge on the neck and sliding it up to and touching the top of the bridge.

If it contacts into the front face of the bridge, then we adjust the neck for a more desirable position

Steve

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by JackB1

That’s kind of what I thought and what seems to make sense but their are Taylor purists that will say you NEVER sand down he saddle and all action adjustments are made with the neck shims.

My intel relayed above comes directly from Taylor Customer Service dude Chris Bearden - write him and ask. He's great. Probably a Taylor purist, too.

I keep my neck angle so that I can slide a straight edge (24") just over the top of the bridge. If it hits, I adjust it til it doesn't. I like a little more room above the bridge on one of my Taylor because it's very low action, but I still want enough saddle exposed, so I over-set that one just a bit, so there's a 1/32 gap or so between the straightedge and the bridge top. Regardless, I then file the saddle to fine-tune the action, but yours could be fine with just the neck adjustment, it depends on what you like.

[JackB1]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

My intel relayed above comes directly from Taylor Customer Service dude Chris Bearden - write him and ask. He's great. Probably a Taylor purist, too.

I keep my neck angle so that I can slide a straight edge (24") just over the top of the bridge. If it hits, I adjust it til it doesn't. I like a little more room above the bridge on one of my Taylor because it's very low action, but I still want enough saddle exposed, so I over-set that one just a bit, so there's a 1/32 gap or so between the straightedge and the bridge top. Regardless, I then file the saddle to fine-tune the action, but yours could be fine with just the neck adjustment, it depends on what you like.

You adjust the neck yourself? I though you needed special tools and shims for that?

[N+1]

There's an interesting video in which Bob Taylor and Andy Powers discuss this - and they don't quite agree. Bob says there's a perfect 'sweet spot' neck angle. Andy says there's a bit of leeway both ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-M4Lzr1kc4

I presume from this that when a guitar comes from the factory, the neck is shimmed at Bob's 'sweet spot', with the saddle height fixed, to establish their preferred geometry in that position. Then, after purchase, the neck can be tilted slightly up or down (staying within Andy's 'bit of leeway') to get an action adjustment to suit the buyer.

That's the theory, and my guess is that for most of us it's good enough. (It has been for me and the setup of my own Taylors.) But it may not suit everyone perfectly: if one starts sanding the saddle, one inevitably moves away from the initial 'sweet' geometry that Taylor try to fix at their end.

[frankhond]

I guess the "purist" idea comes from the fact that most guitar brands don't have a neck where the angle can be easily adjusted. In such a case you ensure the truss rod and nut are adjusted correctly, then you file the saddle, until the point when the guitar needs a neck reset.

On a Taylor you can adjust the neck angle with relative ease, so theoretically you could tweak the angle microscopically to raise or lower the action, rather then filing the saddle. A "new school" idea, and the disagreement between Bob and Andy illustrates the two schools of thinking.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by JackB1

Remove the pickup? I thought you just have to loosen the 3 little screws?

Yes, but those screws also hold it in place.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by N+1

There's an interesting video in which Bob Taylor and Andy Powers discuss this - and they don't quite agree. Bob says there's a perfect 'sweet spot' neck angle. Andy says there's a bit of leeway both ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-M4Lzr1kc4

I presume from this that when a guitar comes from the factory, the neck is shimmed at Bob's 'sweet spot', with the saddle height fixed, to establish their preferred geometry in that position. Then, after purchase, the neck can be tilted slightly up or down (staying within Andy's 'bit of leeway') to get an action adjustment to suit the buyer.

That's the theory, and my guess is that for most of us it's good enough. (It has been for me and the setup of my own Taylors.) But it may not suit everyone perfectly: if one starts sanding the saddle, one inevitably moves away from the initial 'sweet' geometry that Taylor try to fix at their end.

With respect, I understand the video to discuss the pros/cons of relative neck angles, action and bridge/saddle heights, etc. in the context of deciding which angle best suits which type of playing/player to get a particular sound/volume, but the video does not address the OP's question (whether the shim-adjusted angle, alone, is sufficient to set action height, or whether some saddle-lowering might be needed to achieve the desired action. I raise this not to be contrary, but in an effort to keep responses aligned with the OP's original question for the benefit of him, and later readers with the same question.

I reiterate my, Taylor's, and mirwa's, answers - set the basic neck angle with the shims and you might get lucky that a brand new full-height saddle will give you the desired action, but if not, then sand the saddle to get what you want.

However, with a correct neck angle, I suspect a full-height new saddle will give too-high action at the 12th fret, at least for me, who prefers lower action. If you leave the new saddle and attempt to get your desired lowered action using the shims alone, you'll have to crank the neck back (overset) to lower the action and (some luthier step in to correct me if I'm wrong) the result will likely be fret buzz on the lower frets (Bob says as much at 2:26 when discussing the overset neck angle, but again, not in the context of reaching the desired action height).

[fazool]

Originally Posted by JackB1

...their are Taylor purists that will say you NEVER sand down he saddle and all action adjustments are made with the neck shims.

Anyone who says that is not a Taylor purist but, rather a Taylor poser.

Action is not adjusted by shims.

Neck angle, relief, saddle height, but height, string tension are all factors that work together to determine the playability of a guitar.

They all do different things and they are all related (for example, higher string tension may pull the neck, requiring more relief adjustment).

Actions are not made with neck shims. Neck angle is set with neck shims.

Originally Posted by JackB1

Guys I am so confused about this. In have heard conflicting info and am
Trying to get the correct info.

Is it OK to lower the action on a Taylor by sanding the saddle or MUST it be done by a Taylor authorized tech by adding or removing shins under the bolt on neck?
I don’t have a nearby authorized Taylor tech and like to do things myself. If my neck angle is correct, is there anything wrong with sanding down the saddle a bit?

Appreciate all responses. Thanks.

I bristle at the concept of "MUST" and absolutes like that. Not to mention it isn't done that way anyway.