Yamaha A.R.T pickup system?

[Strat80hm]

Hey all - anybody knows existing options to get the A.R.T (Acoustic Resonance Transducer) system on a non-Yamaha guitar?

I love the system - amplifies the entire guitar, resists feedback and have 2 volumes (high strings/low strings) - however i dont love the guitar feel and shape and overall experience. I wish i could just fit one A.R.T on my Cordoba

I ve heard good things about K&K and B-Band SBT but there are pricier than a Yamaha equipped.

Thanks for sharing any knowledge in this domain

[otavio]

Love the system too.
Have it on my NCX 700

[51 Relic]

Have it on my Yamaha NTX1200R love it and the guitar

[aknow]

I have it on an LS 16, Love It!.............I like it more than my K&K, and LR Baggs systems.

[Carbonius]

Proprietary systems often sound good, as they are optimized for that particular guitar brand. Just look at how many stars play Takamine's live (but probably not in studio). That being said, the Yamaha system may not sound as good in another guitar. The ART are either a 2 head or 4 head transducer system (depends which type you have). I would expect that IF Yamaha sells them, they wouldn't be cheap.

Installation would be another problem. K&K and others come with little tools to help you get them installed in just the right spot. Not so with a Yamaha system in a different guitar. Then there's the irreversible part, cutting a specific size hole in your guitar for the preamp.

You could watch ebay and other such places for a ART equipped Yamaha that is being sold cheap due to damage. Acoustic can be so fragile, I'm sure that slightly damaged ones pop up now and again.

[Strat80hm]

Originally Posted by Carbonius

Installation would be another problem. K&K and others come with little tools to help you get them installed in just the right spot.

You could watch ebay and other such places for a ART equipped Yamaha that is being sold cheap due to damage. Acoustic can be so fragile, I'm sure that slightly damaged ones pop up now and again.

Thank you all for input, appreciated.

I had a close look at the ART System (2 ways) and it really is super easy to install apparently: 2 sensors (piezo+absorbing layers) under 2 sets of 3-strings and a preamp. Not even a piezo strip to adjust under the saddle, not even a hole in the soundboard!


Note - i like to experiment a lot on my guitars: this Cordoba already has a side-hole for the FishmanPresys preamp - and i also did some fine testing with the "old" Yamaha system (with the mic inside) - although both have the same flaws (unperfect string balance from piezo/feedback from internal mic).

Havent found any old Yamaha for sale but keep an eye out.


I m wondering to which extent i could create something similar using K&K sensors - has anyone ever tried this? Successfully?

[Strat80hm]

Originally Posted by Carbonius

Proprietary systems often sound good, as they are optimized for that particular guitar brand. Just look at how many stars play Takamine's live (but probably not in studio). That being said, the Yamaha system may not sound as good in another guitar. The ART are either a 2 head or 4 head transducer system (depends which type you have).

Installation would be another problem. K&K and others come with little tools to help you get them installed in just the right spot. Not so with a Yamaha system in a different guitar. Then there's the irreversible part, cutting a specific size hole in your guitar for the preamp.

Update:
- i found a Yamaha with the ART System in it for cheap (cracked top)
- the system sounds fantastic, although not so fan of the neck (big)
- i m about to dismantle it (basically un-glue the 2 transducers) and install the thing on my trusted guitar.
- i m wondering which glue to use, might probably go with Titebond, unless someone in the know tells me there s a better option

Thanks for insight!

[erniecaster]

Hi,

I used a CPX 700 live a lot and really loved the pickup and preamp sound. I bought a different guitar, bought a CPX 700 pickup and preamp and had it built in the new guitar.

Did it sound as good as in the CPX 700? No, not at all. It was really, really bad - and I had a big hole for the preamp in the side of my guitar.

Installing pickup and preamp is always a blindsighted flight...

cu

erniecaster

[Strat80hm]

Did you do the installation yourself? What went wrong? Mine is a System61 2way A.R.T.

[Strat80hm]

Planning on doing that....

[erniecaster]

Originally Posted by Strat80hm

Did you do the installation yourself? What went wrong? Mine is a System61 2way A.R.T.

Hi,

a very good luthier did that for me.

(Scroll a little bit down and look for the EUROPA - wow! http://www.kraushaar-gitarren.de/cms/index.html )

The installation itself was okay, nothing went wrong. It was simply a bad idea and the wrong pickup for this guitar.

The sound of a CPX and even an APX is really good with these systems. It´s full and fat - to be more precise, it´s fuller and fatter than these guitars sound acoustically. That trick works pretty well but in my case the luthier installed it into a Faith Neptune (Naked Series), which sounds already full and fat. That led to a boomy plugged-in-sound.

Get the idea? I´m not sure if I can explain it properly in English - I am not a native speaker.

cu

erniecaster

[wernersaurus]

I need some insight into the makupo of these ART Pickups. I have got an original YAMAHA NCX900R and its output volume has got really low - around microphone level at best.
I got new original ART Pickups from YAMAHA - removed the old ones a replaced with these new ones - same result !?!
I tested the pre-amp with just a standard Piezzo pickup and volumes is as expected. I also tested with the original ART pickups removed from the guitar plugged into just an ordinary pre-amp and tapping them produces reasonable expected volume.
So here is the question:
Those pickups are mounted/glued under the bridge inside the guitar onto the bridge plate via that "Adhesive Rubber Pad". Now - the "Adhesive Rubber Pad" seems to be just about 1 .. 1 1/2mm of a gummy rubber mass. Is that supposed to be that way or is that "Adhesive Rubber Pad" supposed to be somewhat firm with an "Adhesive" applied to glue it under the bridge?

In my opinion - if that "Adhesive Rubber Pad" is all a gummy substance it acts like a shock absorber rather than a vibration transfer.

I have tested the originally removed ART pickups mounted (ie glued with most of that "Adhesive Rubber" removed) on just a plank of timber and they transfer tapping sound quite well.

I must be missing something I think ... need someone to look at an original ART pickup and look at the "Adhesive Rubber Pad" material consistency - I think.

[Strat80hm]

Little update:

- these ART pickups works really well on the original guitar

- i un-glued them from the Yamaha
(not so easy to do, that black sticky layer is thick and really sticky indeed - you need some flat thin tool (cutter, then flat screwdriver) and make sure not to take any wood with it)

- installed them into my Cordoba
(no glue to add since the strong original adhesive was still on the pickups)

- enlarged a bit the electronic cavity to fit the Yamaha preamp
(as the Fishman is slightly smaller)

And that was it
- the system works perfectly well
- string volume is balanced
- i can bang/drum on the guitar and it finally gets out in the signal
- it s pretty good fighting feedback - although i still have some when playing really loud along full band or when too close to amp/monitor

Overall, i m very happy with this mod
(i wish i didnt have to dismantle a Yamaha guitar to get these though)


Hey Wernersaurus - did you fix your situation?
Is it the ART preamp that could be the issue?
(it sounds like the piezo ART transmitter are fine on their own, right?)

[Strat80hm]

Originally Posted by wernersaurus

I must be missing something I think ... need someone to look at an original ART pickup and look at the "Adhesive Rubber Pad" material consistency - I think.

That Adhesive Rubber Pad is very sticky and thick (about 1mm or more) - but quite good at isolating unwanted noises - in my opinion this is what make them sound so natural compared to "direct contact" traditional under-the-saddle piezo system

- the preamp could be at fault - have you tested it by connecting other piezos through it?

[Marshall]

Originally Posted by Strat80hm

Planning on doing that....

That bridgeplate and bracing is very different than a typical X-brace acoustic guitar. I doubt the system would perform as expected if placed in a standard acoustic guitar.