Cheaper Martin and Taylor vs. Guild, Eastman and others

[Sigmadevotee]

I own an Eastman AC422CE that I acquired in your price range. If you check you will see that Eastman has been a major supplier of orchestra quality stringed instruments for more than 50 years - violins, cellos etc. The quality and sound of mine is superb with solid rosewood b/s and Sitka spruce top. I own a Martin D42, a Taylor 814ce, a Martin OM28 Modern Deluxe and the Eastman compares favorably to my ears to all of them.

[Nannicantipot]

Originally Posted by Sigmadevotee

I own an Eastman AC422CE that I acquired in your price range. If you check you will see that Eastman has been a major supplier of orchestra quality stringed instruments for more than 50 years - violins, cellos etc. The quality and sound of mine is superb with solid rosewood b/s and Sitka spruce top. I own a Martin D42, a Taylor 814ce, a Martin OM28 Modern Deluxe and the Eastman compares favorably to my ears to all of them.

I will check all these things out. Thank you very much for your help!

[valleyguy]

Enjoy the search, you really can't go wrong with any of these guitars mentioned. Your best bet is to play as many as you can, start picking out the differences in sound between them and see which you prefer. Taylors are popular with electric guitar players with a similar neck, however, to my ears, are thinner sounding than, for example, a Martin. I am a huge Guild fan, so I like the Chinese Guilds.

You mention an OM model you are interested in. Don't know why you are selecting that style rather than a dreadnought, but their sounds and uses are quite different. If you intend to do mostly fingerstyle, than an OM makes sense. If you like to strum and like a fuller, deeper sound a dreadnaught would be best. Also a dreadnaught can accomplish both, whereas strumming an OM is not vey appealing.

Sounds like you need to spend some time in Madrid playing as many guitars as you can, this is the part of guitar buying I enjoy.

[coyote95667]

Originally Posted by Nannicantipot

Hi Duff, thank you very much for your welcome and your answer.
I will try to answer all your questions the best I can

1. Budget: my budget is en euros, so it's very different from what would be in dollars, because prices are about a 30% higher due to customs duties on guitars made in the USA.
I have fixed it in 1.000 €.
It could go up to 1.300 €, the price of the Martin GPC-11E.
The Guild OMC 150 CE costs about 1.000 €.
The Taylor 214CE (I wrote 114, but in fact this guitar is discontinued and I should have written 214CE) is the same price as the Guild, but as I said, it's layered wood in back and sides while the Guild is all solid wood.

2. Playing. I think I'm an intermediate player, at least that's where I stand in jam sessions. I'm still working to grow up from sloppy to nice and clean. I know an amount of concepts I still have to do the way they must be done. I've been playing mainly electric guitars, so I've been using mostly a pick. For a year now I've been working on my fingerpicking. It has to improve but it looks like it will. I also use strumming when necessary. I know one thing: I don't want a guitar for beginners.

3. As for the tone, that's difficult. Yes, I know it's crucial, but coming from electrics, my decision relies on the tryouts still to be done. I hope I'm not wasting your time with this, but I have always liked the sound of this guitar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAt1b21S97k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq-bcFOI56E

And I also like this (mostly the main guitar, not the necessarily one doing the fills):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIoj8KJdboI

But would like to have the possibility to produce this sound (and the live version I have seen of this song is played with a Guild):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7u0bBrLZsE

Don't know if this makes sense or I have to choose one sound and forget about the others.

4. As for the brands to choose from, if the stores websites tell the truth the choices are not bad:
Martin,
Taylor,
Eastman,
Guild,
Seagull,

And others:
Sigma,
Gretsch,
Takamine,
Cort,
Furch,
Yamaha,
Ibanez,
Alvarez,
Hagstrom,
Fender,
Gibson, of course...

Your advice on the Made in China guitars is very useful, I will keep that in mind.

Thank you for your interest and your time. I hope my answers are more or less focused

I don't want to hijack but I'm curious why is there a Breedlove snub throughout this thread. I was just looking for a $600-$800 guitar and let my eyes and ears do the shopping at a couple Guitar Centers. I was drawn to Breedlove Jeff Bridges and a guy in the store came to me andf said "you should try this instead it's better" and got a $1000 Taylor off the wall (I don't know the model). He played it and I said "I gotta be honest, I don't hear it" and he played the Breedlove and said "yeah you're right this one is better". Then at a second store, it was the same Breedlove (Jeff Bridges sig) and a Seagull that seemed very similar in price and sound. Store employee agreed pretty much a dead heat. Breedlove is solid wood made in China. Why is it universally ignored in a 5 page thread on sub $1K acoustics?

[rollypolly]

Originally Posted by edward993

Welcome aboard!

1. Do not overlook a guit with lam b/s any more than you should give too much credit to one that has solid b/s. There simply is far more to a guitar's tone than mere wood species and composition. This "it's a laminated b/s" thing is far overblown. Let the corksniffers continue sniffing; its their prerogative, but it doesn't have to be yours.

2. Lots of guitars in that price range. But since you mention build quality and durability, it is very difficult not to give that to Taylor. Their QC is arguably the best in the business (certainly among the major players), their commitment to their customers regardless of what you buy from them is genuinely second to none. And their NT neck system all but guarantees you will be enjoying a perfectly playing acoustic forever as it is the only system of its kind that mitigates against age and humidity (within reason, of course).

3. It is very easy to point to this or that guitar brand/model and say "better deal than a Taylor," and on the surface, it seems so. But not all is plain to see as Taylor makes superb instruments that have shaken up the industry (no hyperbole here as their impact speaks for itself); implemented design features like the NT that was a sea change in the industry; their QC and consistency is hallmark as evidenced by everyone who remarks how well Taylors play (even if they don't care for Taylor's tone, which is subjective of course); and their superlative CS support is echoed nearly ubiquitously. Clearly trying a guitar is the best bet. But if buying a guitar "blindly," there are precious few makers who I'd dare even consider doing this, and Taylor is right on the top of my list.

4. Ignore what may sound like "fanboy" talk here and consider what I say as objective observations. You asked for feedback, this is mine

Edward

I agree with Edward here. Taylor, while the lower priced options aren't sexy, makes solid guitars. I only have a big baby, but when I pick that thing up I am constantly amazed. It has a deep, modern dread sound that is a great alternative to the Martin sound. I imagine a 114ce will be similar. Can't go wrong.

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by coyote95667

I don't want to hijack but I'm curious why is there a Breedlove snub throughout this thread.

I'm no expert but I'll give my opinion.

Breedlove has been around a long time. When I first found them they were a boutique brand building high quality guitars with unique designs and interesting tonewoods (like myrtle wood). Expensive and limited quality. Beyond my reach at that point in time.

Then they brought on a lower priced line to try to gain market share.

Then they built some high quality traditional styled guitars.

Then the company was sold and took some production off-shore. And kept some production in the US.

Then the company was sold again. Bedell (a guy with no real experience in the guitar industry) bought Breedlove. The Bedell brand was their higher tier guitars and Breedlove was a lower quality brand that Bedell uses to test out new ideas.

My timeline might not be accurate but that's what I remember about the Breedlove line. And to a guy who doesn't know their line intimately (like me) I don't know what I'm looking at when I pick up a Breedlove guitar. So I tend not to pick them up. The history of the company and their marketing over the last few decades has confused me as a consumer to the point I'm not too interested in their line anymore...

[JohnW63]

To the OP..

The Jethro Tull songs were a small body guitar with a capo clipped on the neck to make it play at a higher tone. Not the sound you will get without a capo. Luckily, those are not expensive!

What chain music store is in your area of Spain? Maybe we could check a web page and make specific suggestions based on what they sell and for how much?

[BoneDigger]

Originally Posted by waterlooz

With Eastman, you want a return policy. I personally have had to return one after 15 days because the neck started to twist and the frets started popping. It was properly humidified, etc. I looked at a brand new one again a few months back and the quality was awful. There were stains inside the guitar and the neck was a bit funny. Bottom line is they make wonderful guitars but make sure you protect yourself with some sort of return policy. YMMV

As far as Martin's and Taylor's being overpriced, I just dont see it that way. While they offer some high end pricing for specific models, they both also offer great guitars around 500-600.

I would THINK you would also want a return policy with Martin, Gibson, or anyone else for that matter. There are way too many stories here of issues with Martin and Gibson to not also want to check any guitar out when you receive it.

[Nannicantipot]

Originally Posted by coyote95667

I don't want to hijack but I'm curious why is there a Breedlove snub throughout this thread. I was just looking for a $600-$800 guitar and let my eyes and ears do the shopping at a couple Guitar Centers. I was drawn to Breedlove Jeff Bridges and a guy in the store came to me andf said "you should try this instead it's better" and got a $1000 Taylor off the wall (I don't know the model). He played it and I said "I gotta be honest, I don't hear it" and he played the Breedlove and said "yeah you're right this one is better". Then at a second store, it was the same Breedlove (Jeff Bridges sig) and a Seagull that seemed very similar in price and sound. Store employee agreed pretty much a dead heat. Breedlove is solid wood made in China. Why is it universally ignored in a 5 page thread on sub $1K acoustics?

Hi.
Thank you very much for your answer. I have to confess I don't know Breedlove guitars. I write you listening to some videos I have found and I like the tone of these instruments. The problem is I have browsed the websites of the stores I have acces to in Spain and they don't seem easy to find. I will keep this in mind and try to find one, anyway.

[Nannicantipot]

Originally Posted by JohnW63

To the OP..

The Jethro Tull songs were a small body guitar with a capo clipped on the neck to make it play at a higher tone. Not the sound you will get without a capo. Luckily, those are not expensive!

What chain music store is in your area of Spain? Maybe we could check a web page and make specific suggestions based on what they sell and for how much?

Hello, John.
I found a website were Ian Anderson talks about the instruments he has used over the years and this small guitar seems to be a Martin 0-16NY.
So I heard some videos of it without a capo and I still like the tone.
Here are some of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSv...eKky3l&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxzK...eKky3l&index=2

There are some used on sale, but of course I can't afford them.
It's also true that this tone doesn't seem easy to find outside Martin guitars. I will see, I should be testing all this soon now.

As for the stores in Madrid, it's very nice if you want to check them out. Here are the biggest ones:
https://musicopolix.com/cat/guitarras/110-acusticas
https://www.madridhifi.com/instrumen...ras-acusticas/
https://www.malaga8.com/guitarras-acusticas-c-21.html
https://leturiaga.com/2150-guitarras-acusticas

Thank you for your help!

[Nannicantipot]

Originally Posted by valleyguy

Enjoy the search, you really can't go wrong with any of these guitars mentioned. Your best bet is to play as many as you can, start picking out the differences in sound between them and see which you prefer. Taylors are popular with electric guitar players with a similar neck, however, to my ears, are thinner sounding than, for example, a Martin. I am a huge Guild fan, so I like the Chinese Guilds.

You mention an OM model you are interested in. Don't know why you are selecting that style rather than a dreadnought, but their sounds and uses are quite different. If you intend to do mostly fingerstyle, than an OM makes sense. If you like to strum and like a fuller, deeper sound a dreadnaught would be best. Also a dreadnaught can accomplish both, whereas strumming an OM is not vey appealing.

Sounds like you need to spend some time in Madrid playing as many guitars as you can, this is the part of guitar buying I enjoy.

Thank you for your answer.
I will be doing that next month and I plan to enjoy it too!
I will then decide about the size of the guitar.
My only acoustic guitar has been a small Framus parlor. It must have gone through hard times because it is very difficult to tune and to play and, even so, I like the experience, although I want something with a wider nut. I like the OM tone on the videos but it can be different when I test them.

[Wellington]

Originally Posted by coyote95667

I don't want to hijack but I'm curious why is there a Breedlove snub throughout this thread. I was just looking for a $600-$800 guitar and let my eyes and ears do the shopping at a couple Guitar Centers. I was drawn to Breedlove Jeff Bridges and a guy in the store came to me andf said "you should try this instead it's better" and got a $1000 Taylor off the wall (I don't know the model). He played it and I said "I gotta be honest, I don't hear it" and he played the Breedlove and said "yeah you're right this one is better". Then at a second store, it was the same Breedlove (Jeff Bridges sig) and a Seagull that seemed very similar in price and sound. Store employee agreed pretty much a dead heat. Breedlove is solid wood made in China. Why is it universally ignored in a 5 page thread on sub $1K acoustics?

The reason I have never for a second considered Breedlove is they are ugly as sin to my eyes, no matter how nice they might play or sound, I have a limit to what I'd buy aesthetically, because that's part of the enjoyment for me as a player, along with sound and playability.

But it's hard to go wrong these days with affordable guitars, so many brands are producing so many good guitars.

In this price range I like Simon & Patrick Woodland cedar or Seagull S6 Cedar, same guitar slightly different shapes and headstock. Unique wood combo, good price and sound great.

[Nannicantipot]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I cant comment on Chinese Guilds, but in general, I wouldnt let “made in China” dissuade me from a guitar. My Eastman PCH dred has lami b/s, but has tone and playability of guitars costing 4x as much. And it was around $500.

Originally Posted by edward993

Welcome aboard!

1. Do not overlook a guit with lam b/s any more than you should give too much credit to one that has solid b/s. There simply is far more to a guitar's tone than mere wood species and composition. This "it's a laminated b/s" thing is far overblown. Let the corksniffers continue sniffing; its their prerogative, but it doesn't have to be yours.

2. Lots of guitars in that price range. But since you mention build quality and durability, it is very difficult not to give that to Taylor. Their QC is arguably the best in the business (certainly among the major players), their commitment to their customers regardless of what you buy from them is genuinely second to none. And their NT neck system all but guarantees you will be enjoying a perfectly playing acoustic forever as it is the only system of its kind that mitigates against age and humidity (within reason, of course).

3. It is very easy to point to this or that guitar brand/model and say "better deal than a Taylor," and on the surface, it seems so. But not all is plain to see as Taylor makes superb instruments that have shaken up the industry (no hyperbole here as their impact speaks for itself); implemented design features like the NT that was a sea change in the industry; their QC and consistency is hallmark as evidenced by everyone who remarks how well Taylors play (even if they don't care for Taylor's tone, which is subjective of course); and their superlative CS support is echoed nearly ubiquitously. Clearly trying a guitar is the best bet. But if buying a guitar "blindly," there are precious few makers who I'd dare even consider doing this, and Taylor is right on the top of my list.

4. Ignore what may sound like "fanboy" talk here and consider what I say as objective observations. You asked for feedback, this is mine

Edward

Originally Posted by Ed66

As has been stated before, don't presume that a guitar not having solid wood back and sides can't perform exceptionally. Some builders even choose to use layered wood sides and backs on high end models to achieve certain design and/or integrity goals. If you're looking at guitars under $800 that are a real value, it would be hard to miss if you look in the Seagull, Alvarez, Eastman and Yamaha direction. All of these companies produce exceptional guitars at that price point. There are others that do so as well, but my experience is that these are the better options.

Originally Posted by neilca

Pickup a used Yamaha AC3R or A3R from GC you won't regret it.

Originally Posted by mrjop1975

I have a Guild M-140 which is in the Westerly series, all solid wood, and yes, made offshore. I personally love it and it fit my needs and criteria perfectly. My piece of advise, though, is do not let the name on the headstock tell you what you are getting. Go with the sound, feel, comfort, am I getting bang for my buck, then go, oh, it's a Guild, oh it's a ......

Hi everybody.
The search is over and the deal is done, so I want to thank everybody in this thread for your interest and your help.
Given the fact I was starting from scratch (electric guitar player with a lot to learn) all your contributions were of great help. To begin with, I understood I had to focus on a tone and consider other details after that.

I finally had to go beyond my budget, as some of you told me to do.
Yes, I guess the Martin GPC-16E would have been a fantastic choice, since I tried the GPC-11E (and it does lack tone and volume but it's very nice) and the GPC-13E (very cool guitar, it almost won the race!) but, even if in the websites here they offer almost anything, not everything is avaliable when you go trying and shopping, especially now, after the Covid-19 break. Martin seems to be particularly affected by this issue.

Eastman, Seagull, Guild didn't have the tone I was looking for. And I really was aiming to Guild, I like those guitars. My final decision was a Furch. Green Series, sitka and african mahogany. Orchestra body with a cutaway. As I said, choice was limited, but I'm deeply satisfied, I love this guitar. I wanted a Grand Performance body, but this OM responds wonderfully. I would have liked an electro-acoustic, but I've got more value in wood quality. As I have said, in the morning I had almost decided to go for the Martin GPC-13E, but the moment you grab this Furch guitar (and I had played it the day before already) you know it's superior, and that's what happened in the afternoon. It's superbly done, it's the high-range of Furch, which
doesn't happen with the GPC-13E, even if I still like it a lot.

Finally, I have to say it's have been a very nice experience. Guitar sellers in Madrid (Madrid HiFi, Malaga 8, Leturiaga, UME) are wonderful, they know their job and they make you feel at home. I wish I could buy me a guitar every six months or so.

Thanks everybody for sharing your knowledge and for your help! (I hope I manage to include all of you in my answer!)

[Rogerblair]

Congratulations on your Furch. I’ve heard wonderful things about them.

Regarding buying a guitar every six months…hang around here long enough and you wil be doing just that🤣🤣

Roger

[Aimelie]

Congratulations! Furch make extraordinary guitars for the price, and you clearly found that out in Madrid. What an excellent result!

Also, and almost entirely unrelated, I Love Padron peppers! (I have them as tapas any time my husband and I make the drive to Jaca.)

Enjoy that Furch—you’ve got many smiles ahead of you, thanks to a most excellent choice in guitars.