Guitar show stress, WHAT IF's & full disclosure... warning LONG post!

[Steve Kinnaird]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

An unopened can of spar varnish should last for years on the shelf.

This is worrisome. I was planning to use Epifanes on my next spec build.

You'll be fine, Howard... once you strip it off and apply polyester.

Steve

[Paul Ng]

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

You'll be fine, Howard... once you strip it off and apply polyester.

Steve

remember also to apply proverbs 16:18

Thumbs up for Mr Tim for his reaction in dealing with the matter. You surely have the fruit of patience. PtL

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by Laurent Brondel

Tim didn't want to name any brand, but yes Howard you are correct it is Epifanes clear varnish. I think Tim followed my schedule if not to the letter, pretty closely. From what I understand the reason may be outdated varnish quarts purchased not from Epifanes, but from a reseller. At least that is the most likely explanation at this point as I never experienced what happened to Tim.
Epifanes is kind of the Rolls Royce of oil varnishes, has the reputation behind it, and the US rep is very responsive.
It is true that even a short oil varnish is softer than modern synthetic finishes, but no softer than, say, a fresh nitrocellulose lacquer.
When Tim emailed me last week to tell me he stripped the HGF guitars and refinished them with poly, I didn't realise he had to do it so close to the finish line, so to speak…
In any case I too am so glad it turned out for the best. Like everybody I've had to strip the odd guitar for various reasons, but never, ever four at the same time!
Kudos to you Tim for forging ahead and keeping your sanity.

I think its vitally important to note that short oil varnish has been used successfully for many years by a LOT of great builders including our very own Bruce Sexauer and Laurent Brondel. This thread is by no means meant to infer that oil varnish is an inferior finish because it simply is not! The thread is meant to share a bad experience with a happy ending.

I wish I fully understood what happened but I don't but my hunch is that it was perhaps a bad [defective] batch of varnish or perhaps the accelerator or maybe even a formulation change was made that we were not aware of? It could have also been a reaction to a polish that I applied to remove the buffing compound and swirl marks?

I support the use of short oil varnish and its a proven finish that has withstood the test of time. This situation could have easily happened with any number of other finish types. So please don't read into this thread that I am bashing varnish because I am not!

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

An unopened can of spar varnish should last for years on the shelf.

This is worrisome. I was planning to use Epifanes on my next spec build.

Should is the key word. Case in point... I purchased some other [brand] of varnish commonly used on table tops, at a reduced "sale" price, from an internet supplier's close out page. When I opened the product, three of the four quart cans had a thick skin on the surface which is very uncommon for new unopened cans. Three quarts were returned and I used the other quart with predictable results.

Don't be fearsome of using the Epifanes product Howard. However, I would suggest purchasing it direct from the importer in New England. Yes, you will pay more for the cross country freight but your chances of getting fresh product would be much greater.

[Kitchen Guitars]

Wow Tim, I am sorry for your troubles. YIKES. We have a great network of friends! Like when you walked me through my "Backward body" and fixing the neck angle. YOU, saved my first from becoming 2 planters!
Keep me on speed dial if anything like this (please no) ever happens again. I'll be there in 3 hours! Even if its to make you feel fantastic about your golf game!
Love you and Mary. I am glad this is behind you. Have fun at the show. Its a shame I'd have to get on a plane to see it.
Umm, take your time on my Black Knight!

[Bruce Sexauer]

Hmm. In my entire career I've never once had to strip a guitar finish! And despite using varnish from guitar one, I've never used Epiphanes either. Coincidence? I think so. I have now used a dozen different kinds of commercial varnish and the only one that failed to make the cut was the one which was a spar varnish. That was Man-o-war, and it is just too soft; never really dries. When I read the promotional material for Epiphanes, it sounds like the wrong stuff to me, though I know Laurent is having good luck with it. I continue to have such good results with Ace Hardware #276 that I can't see a problem with it at all. $9.99 a quart in a hardware store near you! It even smells good.

I seriously doubt that Tim's varnish trouble came from being past is use by date. When varnish gets old it gels in the can, or hardens completely, and renders itself unusable either way. I took 15 years off from varnish and learned to use Nitro and then waterborne. When I went back to varnish I found a half used quart in my paint locker (at least 15 years old) and used it to finish 2 guitars. No trouble at all.

[Kitchen Guitars]

Likely nothing to do with it but.....
10 years ago Jaguar was having issues with paint flaking. They linked it to anti-perspirants with Aluminum -Oxide. Like the one sold at the Walmart down the road from the plant. Now the employees stink, but the cars look great.
Maybe something in the shop influenced the problem.
In case anyone thinks I am kidding;
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Jaguar+bans+'paint+stripper'+deodorants.-a077094421

[coldshot]

Great insight into the lives and times of our Luthier friends.

Glad to hear you managed to get it all sorted in time Tim.

All things happen for a reason.

[Kitchen Guitars]

Originally Posted by coldshot

All things happen for a reason.

Hi Coldshot!
Like last night when I was teaching my youngest how to ride a 2 wheeler. I got on her 20" bike to show her balance and safety. I went over the handlebars, sprained my wrist got a lump on my arm, a black eye and a scraped nose. She learned "Don't do what dad just did" lol

[kirkham13]

great story-good for you...

[edman]

Your prayers were answered.

You could have a second career as a writer. I was hanging on every word.

[jay7347]

My goodness what an incredible story. It read like my nightmares... Really glad that all worked out for you Tim and Mary.

Faith and determination is a powerful combo!
-jay

[coldshot]

Originally Posted by Kitchen Guitars

Hi Coldshot!
I went over the handlebars, sprained my wrist got a lump on my arm, a black eye and a scraped nose. She learned "Don't do what dad just did" lol

G day John,

I did the same thing christmas day two years ago in front of the whole family.

[Rollie]

Nice save , Tim ...Sometimes you've got to take a deep breath, and dive right in to get r done .....You did just that....

[Neil K Walk]

I can't begin to understand the dismay you felt, Tim, but I'm glad to hear that you got the situation resolved with a little help from your friends. I hope the stress is behind you and that and Mary are able to enjoy yourselves in Healdsburgh.

PS: way to go, Kurt. It looks like you're getting some budding luthier skills there! Let's hope you don't have to use this particular one though. It certainly looks like applying stripper to a finished guitar is not a fun thing to do.