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  #301  
Old 02-19-2019, 08:53 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Awesome! I am strongly considering a simple Matrix UST paired with the Tonedexter. I feel like that would be pretty plug and play.
I used the element tonight but my plan is to use the Fishman AG passive pickup with ToneDexter.
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  #302  
Old 02-20-2019, 12:15 AM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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The sound guy earlier this evening flipped out about my acoustic tone. He came up and said, "Now THAT's what an acoustic guitar should sound like.

I recorded about 15 different wavemaps yesterday with an SM81 in various positions and distance and I got some great results. I haven't transferred the wavemaps to my HX Stomp yet, so my chain was 1952 Gibson J-45 with Schatten HFN > Tonedexter > Helix > DI > PA.

The HX Stomp block is Parametric EQ > Compressor > light Plate reverb.

I'm in the beginning stages with the HX Stomp, so I didn't go crazy with anything. It sounded fantastic. The sound guy was impressed because he gets a lot of National Touring acts through there and usually has to work to make the acoustics sound good. He said my channel was flat and didn't need any tweaking .

He wanted to get a Tonedexter just to have, but I told him that he'd have to profile the guitars on the spot. He kinda scratched his head and said, "Might actually be worth it. You should hear some of the signals that I have to work with,..."
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Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #303  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:42 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by dcopper View Post
I did maps for my 814 K&K Taylor and used an SM57, experimenting with several placements. I just try the different character settings or blend until it sounds good to me. I like the K&K blended, usually not full 100% TD. I like the sound so much it makes me wonder what a better mic and different placement will do for me.

I played last Thursday with the TD and MXR234 analog chorus - out to a kicked back BOSE S1. Fabulous sound.
davidc
You may be favoring some dry Pure Mini signal in your blend because it brings back some of the low bass which the SM57 removes from the signal which is training ToneDexter.

The SM57's frequency response drops about 5 db between 196 Hz (the fundamental frequency of the open G string in standard tuning at concert pitch) and 82.41 Hz (the fundamental frequency of the open low E string in standard tuning at concert pitch).

You'll probably like the WaveMaps even better when you start training with one of the recommended training mics which has (or can be set for) a flat frequency response.

Last edited by guitaniac; 02-20-2019 at 05:28 AM.
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  #304  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:57 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I used the element tonight but my plan is to use the Fishman AG passive pickup with ToneDexter.
I've been wondering if passive pickups might not be the best way to go with ToneDexter. Its occurred to me that certain onboard preamps might be pulling some tricks that aren't completely compatible with ToneDexter.

The Matrix Infinity onboard preamp, for instance, is a great curiosity to me. When I connected one of David Enke's OTSS USTs to it, the result was so bassy (with the tone control set for max treble) that it takes a 7.5db bass cut from ToneDexter to normalize the tone when I have TD on bypass. On the other hand, that same pickup yields a nicely balanced signal with a typical outboard preamp.

Last edited by guitaniac; 02-20-2019 at 05:16 AM.
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  #305  
Old 02-20-2019, 05:13 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I think there are two issues with a full wavemap blend. One, it cuts out some bass that eq doesn't really bring back in. The Aura imaging does the same thing. It also tends to sound a bit hollow even with a perfect mic placement.

I have said this before but I honestly use about 50% blend or even as low as 35%. Even at that low of a blend, the wavemap is imparting a pretty significant mic-like quality to my pickup but I don't lose that high end/immediacy of the piezo that I like. If you get this in time, you should try a very low blend just to see how you like it.
FWIW, I think the recommended miking position of aiming down at the soundhole from above the guitar (see James May's demo video) helps to get a somewhat bassier WaveMap.

There are also ways to trick ToneDexter into training a bassier WaveMap. Before finally getting a recommended training mic, I experimented with EQing some extra bass into an SM57 training mic signal. That certainly resulted in a bassier WaveMap.

Another possible trick would be to EQ some bass out of the pickup signal while training, then use the regular pickup signal when performing with TD.
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  #306  
Old 02-20-2019, 05:20 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
The sound guy earlier this evening flipped out about my acoustic tone. He came up and said, "Now THAT's what an acoustic guitar should sound like.

I recorded about 15 different wavemaps yesterday with an SM81 in various positions and distance and I got some great results. I haven't transferred the wavemaps to my HX Stomp yet, so my chain was 1952 Gibson J-45 with Schatten HFN > Tonedexter > Helix > DI > PA.

The HX Stomp block is Parametric EQ > Compressor > light Plate reverb.

I'm in the beginning stages with the HX Stomp, so I didn't go crazy with anything. It sounded fantastic. The sound guy was impressed because he gets a lot of National Touring acts through there and usually has to work to make the acoustics sound good. He said my channel was flat and didn't need any tweaking .

He wanted to get a Tonedexter just to have, but I told him that he'd have to profile the guitars on the spot. He kinda scratched his head and said, "Might actually be worth it. You should hear some of the signals that I have to work with,..."
Its good to learn what a pro soundtech thinks of your ToneDexter results. Thanks for sharing.
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  #307  
Old 02-20-2019, 08:02 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is online now
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
FWIW, I think the recommended miking position of aiming down at the soundhole from above the guitar (see James May's demo video) helps to get a somewhat bassier WaveMap.

There are also ways to trick ToneDexter into training a bassier WaveMap. Before finally getting a recommended training mic, I experimented with EQing some extra bass into an SM57 training mic signal. That certainly resulted in a bassier WaveMap.

Another possible trick would be to EQ some bass out of the pickup signal while training, then use the regular pickup signal when performing with TD.
What I have found is that there's a difference between a bass heavy wavemap and a pickup that has sufficient low end. If a wavemap is created with a more bass heavy tone in order to compensate for the TD stripping a bit of the low end, then it becomes problematic live. I just like getting a pickup that has enough low end and then making a wavemap that's quite nice but won't be 100% of my signal/tone. I just bend it in until I am happy.

On a side note, I have been waiting for the Slate ML-2 to hit stores in my area but it has literally been out of stock for eight months (maybe even more as that's when I first checked). I am over that company. I want a better mic though. I am tempted to spring for the Shure SM-81.
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  #308  
Old 02-20-2019, 08:42 AM
raduray raduray is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
On a side note, I have been waiting for the Slate ML-2 to hit stores in my area but it has literally been out of stock for eight months (maybe even more as that's when I first checked). I am over that company. I want a better mic though. I am tempted to spring for the Shure SM-81.
I picked up one in great condition off Reverb.
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  #309  
Old 02-20-2019, 08:49 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
What I have found is that there's a difference between a bass heavy wavemap and a pickup that has sufficient low end. If a wavemap is created with a more bass heavy tone in order to compensate for the TD stripping a bit of the low end, then it becomes problematic live. I just like getting a pickup that has enough low end and then making a wavemap that's quite nice but won't be 100% of my signal/tone. I just bend it in until I am happy.

On a side note, I have been waiting for the Slate ML-2 to hit stores in my area but it has literally been out of stock for eight months (maybe even more as that's when I first checked). I am over that company. I want a better mic though. I am tempted to spring for the Shure SM-81.
I hear what you're saying about a Dexterized bass end seeming to be a little more feedback prone. I presume that's why they cut the resonant frequencies a bit for the WaveMaps which are intended for live performance.

Here's a Vintage Sony electret Mic which I used back in the '80s for a time before it fell apart. Its a very good instrument mic and retailed for $279 when it was introduced back in 1978. If you put it on the "M" setting it has a very flat bass response, although there's a definite presence peak out around 15 KHz.

http://www.coutant.org/sonyscan/ecm-23f.pdf


There are one or two on ebay right now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Electr...7060254?epid=1
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  #310  
Old 02-20-2019, 09:01 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by raduray View Post
I picked up one in great condition off Reverb.
Yep, I found an ML-2 on reverb too. This happened just after the Sweetwater rep had told me that the revised arrival estimate was still a month away. I'd already been waiting since October, so I took the new arrival estimate with a grain of salt. As luck would have it, the Sweetwater shipment came in two days after I bought used off reverb.com. Another case of man plans and God laughs.
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  #311  
Old 02-20-2019, 09:49 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
I hear what you're saying about a Dexterized bass end seeming to be a little more feedback prone. I presume that's why they cut the resonant frequencies a bit for the WaveMaps which are intended for live performance.

Here's a Vintage Sony electret Mic which I used back in the '80s for a time before it fell apart. Its a very good instrument mic and retailed for $279 when it was introduced back in 1978. If you put it on the "M" setting it has a very flat bass response, although there's a definite presence peak out around 15 KHz.

http://www.coutant.org/sonyscan/ecm-23f.pdf


There are one or two on ebay right now:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Electr...7060254?epid=1

PS I should mention that I was considering buying another ECM-23F when I noticed that a used Slate ML-2 was available.
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