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  #1  
Old 05-17-2015, 12:37 AM
bflatsharp9 bflatsharp9 is offline
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Default Inverter/battery for AER compact 60?

Hello again,

I'm in NYC and looking to buy an inverter to power my AER 60 amplifier (230v), the last time I tried a MSW 300w inverter there was a loud buzz, after reading more on this topic I wonder if the buzz was caused by the battery (12v 7a) perhaps I need a deep cycle battery?

I met a busker in Paris who was using a MSW inverter with a Lithium Ion battery to power his AER 60, it was the best light weight busking set up in ever seen but unfortunately I lost his email to ask him where he got the battery, I do remember him telling me is cost 300e, would be worth it considering I have a shoulder issue from schlepping heavy gear around.

Does anyone out there have experience using Lithium batteries ? Also can anyone suggest where I could pick up a good inverter while I'm in NYC ? (EU prices are much higher)

Bobby1note !?

Thanks
Bb
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2015, 06:53 AM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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The buzz is from the inverter. It chops up the dc and steps it up. It then shapes it into a sine wave. You can make a cheap inverter that does a poor sine wave (buzzy on audio equipment) or a more expensive inverter (hopefully closer to a real sine wave). Best thing is to try one to see if it plays nice with your amp. Lithium batteries are lighter but you need a proper charger for them. You would want to get them at the proper voltage for your inverter.

Radio controlled model car/airplane people know about getting the most power in a little package. Without knowing how long you will be playing between charges, the power consumption of the amp, the efficiency of the inverter, it is a wild guess to select a battery. Looks to be a nice little amp.

If it were me I would have a tech (actually I would not need a tech, I am one of sorts) measure the voltage the amp runs on and get a Li pack made up for it (RC guys again) and use a RC charger. You would get longer play time out of the batteries as you would not have the inverter losses or the losses converting the 230V back down to a voltage the amp runs at.

Just came across this.

http://www.streetmusician.co.uk/batterycalculation/

Last edited by printer2; 05-17-2015 at 07:00 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-17-2015, 07:06 AM
zhunter zhunter is offline
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I'll second it. Likely the inverter. I tried my Schertler with a modified sine wave inverter and got a buzzing noise too. To noisy to be useful. It worked OK with my solid state electric guitar amp and others report success powering certain PA speakers with a modified wave inverter. Unfortunately, pure sine wave inverters are pretty expensive but it seems for certain amps it may be the way to go to get rid of the noise.

Good Luck

hunter
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  #4  
Old 05-17-2015, 09:43 AM
PTC Bernie PTC Bernie is offline
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Default AER compact 60

I looked at the IOM on line and there are models for 100, 120, 230 and 240 VAC. I would be very surprised if this wasn't something that you could accomplish by simply changing taps on the power transformer.

It would definitely be worth an email to the manufacturer. If that's all it is, you're looking at a very simple mod that you could probably do yourself.
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Old 05-17-2015, 10:47 AM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTC Bernie View Post
I looked at the IOM on line and there are models for 100, 120, 230 and 240 VAC. I would be very surprised if this wasn't something that you could accomplish by simply changing taps on the power transformer.

It would definitely be worth an email to the manufacturer. If that's all it is, you're looking at a very simple mod that you could probably do yourself.
I think he wants to run it on batteries and leave the transformer alone to use it on wall current.
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Old 05-17-2015, 11:09 AM
zhunter zhunter is offline
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To your question on needing a different battery. The standard approach is the deep cycle battery because of its ability to repeatedly recover from a deep discharge. Not noise reduction. While a big current pull could overwhelm your 7ah battery, the likely result would be a voltage drop and the inverter would kick out. I know the two inverters I have will shut down on low voltage. I believe as long as you have voltage enough to keep the inverter going you probably have enough the keep the amp alive, at least at low power. My Schertler buzzed when the guitar wasn't even plugged in so current demands were minimal. I think that amp needs a pure sine wave inverter.

So the short answer is I don't think a deep cycle battery will solve the buzz problem. But it would be worth a try to at least hook up to a well charged 12v car battery to test the tendency for the amp to buzz. Especially if your previous test used a questionable battery.

hunter
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:12 AM
bflatsharp9 bflatsharp9 is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
The buzz is from the inverter. It chops up the dc and steps it up. It then shapes it into a sine wave. You can make a cheap inverter that does a poor sine wave (buzzy on audio equipment) or a more expensive inverter (hopefully closer to a real sine wave). Best thing is to try one to see if it plays nice with your amp. Lithium batteries are lighter but you need a proper charger for them. You would want to get them at the proper voltage for your inverter.

Radio controlled model car/airplane people know about getting the most power in a little package. Without knowing how long you will be playing between charges, the power consumption of the amp, the efficiency of the inverter, it is a wild guess to select a battery. Looks to be a nice little amp.

If it were me I would have a tech (actually I would not need a tech, I am one of sorts) measure the voltage the amp runs on and get a Li pack made up for it (RC guys again) and use a RC charger. You would get longer play time out of the batteries as you would not have the inverter losses or the losses converting the 230V back down to a voltage the amp runs at.

Just came across this.

http://www.streetmusician.co.uk/batterycalculation/
Thanks for your excellent ideas, I will look into it...
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:14 AM
bflatsharp9 bflatsharp9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTC Bernie View Post
I looked at the IOM on line and there are models for 100, 120, 230 and 240 VAC. I would be very surprised if this wasn't something that you could accomplish by simply changing taps on the power transformer.

It would definitely be worth an email to the manufacturer. If that's all it is, you're looking at a very simple mod that you could probably do yourself.
Hmmm interesting, thanks for looking it up, I will email AER...
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:18 AM
bflatsharp9 bflatsharp9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
I think he wants to run it on batteries and leave the transformer alone to use it on wall current.
Yes this was my original thought but now I wonder .... I wonder if it's possible to have some sort of switch to go back and forth from 220v or 110v to 12v
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:31 AM
Tomm Williams Tomm Williams is offline
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You want a Pure Sine Wave inverter. Most of the less expensive models are Modified Sine Wave design and are not recommended for delicate electronics like audio devices. I learned this the hard way by damaging a pair of class D amps.
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2015, 12:23 PM
PTC Bernie PTC Bernie is offline
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Default Switch

You might be able to find a slider switch for 110/240 vac, but adding 12vdc into the mix might be asking for too much. There's a reason why different voltages use different plugs. It keeps you from letting the smoke out.

Depending on the transformer ( specifically the output) you might be able to wire in after the xformer directly with the 12 vdc. Now you're staring to get above my comfort level, but this stuff should be a piece of cake to a good amp tech

How often would you be switching from 120/240 vac?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bflatsharp9 View Post
Yes this was my original thought but now I wonder .... I wonder if it's possible to have some sort of switch to go back and forth from 220v or 110v to 12v

Last edited by PTC Bernie; 05-18-2015 at 12:28 PM.
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2015, 01:14 PM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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This US based company sells a wide range of batteries and battery packs including all the lithium types:

http://www.batteryspace.com/

They sell some inverters but mostly 110 volts.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2015, 04:33 PM
bflatsharp9 bflatsharp9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTC Bernie View Post
You might be able to find a slider switch for 110/240 vac, but adding 12vdc into the mix might be asking for too much. There's a reason why different voltages use different plugs. It keeps you from letting the smoke out.

Depending on the transformer ( specifically the output) you might be able to wire in after the xformer directly with the 12 vdc. Now you're staring to get above my comfort level, but this stuff should be a piece of cake to a good amp tech

How often would you be switching from 120/240 vac?
I emailed AER and thet sayed the transformer can not be changed (but they would say that wouldn't they).
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2015, 04:47 PM
bflatsharp9 bflatsharp9 is offline
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Default please help me to figure out if this battery is right.

Apparently the power draw from my Euro 230V, 30 watt AER amplifier is 500mA.

I seen this 12V 9800mA Li-Ion battery on Ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiC-5V-9V-12...item27e0c6cc8c

From Hong Kong for only 59 dollars, In the discription they say this:

*Important Notice:
These batteries are designed for low current applications, such as powering digital cameras, MP3 players and other small consumer electronics, and small groups of LED lights where the current (ampere) requirement is 500mA (6 watts) or less.

Could someone please help me to understand if this battery will work for my amp and how long i could expect it to run on one charge.

Thanks in advance
Bb
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2015, 04:48 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflatsharp9 View Post
I emailed AER and thet sayed the transformer can not be changed (but they would say that wouldn't they).
Cheaper to put an off the shelf transformer in that operates at one voltage rather than putting in a custom transformer that is dual voltage. If someone is making 100,000 of something then a custom transformer might be cost effective if they are selling to different markets.

I emailed the company asking what voltage the amp runs at in case the OP wanted to run it directly off of the battery without an inverter. They have not replied so far.
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