Would you find this strum pattern difficult?

[DonB]

I guess i am an intermediate player, but am finding the pattern for "Space Oddity" hard to learn. D**U D**U *UD* DUDU. Is this supposed to be 4 beats of sixteenth notes?

[mattbn73]

Yeah. Strum an all-16ths pattern with the recording softly. Try to get a feel for the accent patterns. Easier than trying to Play some pattern very specifically and perfectly.

"What strum pattern?" Is a question created by the Internet. Nobody used to learn to play that way.

[KDepew]

Just want to say the response from mattbn73 was great! When I learned to play guitar back when there was no internet, I never once thought "what strum pattern should I use?"....

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by DonB

I guess i am an intermediate player, but am finding the pattern for "Space Oddity" hard to learn. D**U D**U *UD* DUDU. Is this supposed to be 4 beats of sixteenth notes?

Yes.

But it's also not supposed to be fixed. If you listen to the original, it's mostly something like that, but varies. The syncopation of beat 3 is fairly consistent, but not the rest.

The way to play 16th rhythms is simply to play downstrokes on every 8th. 1-&-2-&-3-&-4-&. But don't hit them with the same accent - hit the beats harder than the "&"s. You can actually miss the "&"s as long as your hand still moves down.
Upstrokes can come almost anywhere - your hand is moving back up between the downs after all, right? You're just missing the strings. So allow the pick to hit the strings occasionally as it moves up.
Once you get that comfortable, you can try accenting an upstroke and missing the next down - which is what's happening in the middle of that pattern.

Justin is carefully playing that strum pattern (watch his right arm):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vq4soImlvQ

but Marty Schwartz isn't:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yBl5oZ_iqQ
- but sounds OK, right? Sounds like Space Oddity? He's moving his arm the same way, just not connecting with the strings the exact same way.

Here's some other guy playing it :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYYRH4apXDo
So, is he getting it "right"? Close, but not exact, right? Close enough is close enough, obviously.

In all of these, it's the right hand movement that's key. Just keep it moving like that, and feel the accents on the beats. I.e., don't count the downstrokes (as you would when playing at faster tempos), count the beats. Each beat has two downstrokes, not one.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by DonB

I guess i am an intermediate player, but am finding the pattern for "Space Oddity" hard to learn. D**U D**U *UD* DUDU. Is this supposed to be 4 beats of sixteenth notes?

In answer to your post title question, no not at all. If this is your approach to learning songs you will find it very hard to make progress.

As explained above, the starting point is to keep your strumming hand moving up and down -so up and down twice to each beat here - (or moving in 16ths, but to be honest I never thought about any kind of theory when learning to strum and certainly not any 'strumming patterns').

Then you use your *ears* to recognise and lock into the rhythm pattern you are hearing, and *allow* your hands to simply copy it, by accenting strokes at the right times. Whether that happens to be on an upstroke or downstroke, don't analyse it, simply let it happen.

This is a fundamental listening skill/playing skill for a guitarist. Once you get it you will be able to to play/accompany just about any rock/pop/folk song without ever analysing 'strum patterns', which in any case you should be able to improvise and change at will without losing the groove (as David Bowie did).

So learn to groove

[beninma]

This is an interesting response, are those of you who responded in terms of "don't worry about the pattern/figure it out yourself by ear like the old days" self taught?

Some of this I think I could figure out but when I go to lessons we do discuss this kind of stuff, usually not calling it "strumming pattern", and often being flexible, but having some one give you hints about D U, etc.. can make something take 5 minutes to learn instead of hours.

Most of it does follow some general rules though so it seems like gets easier as you go.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by beninma

Some of this I think I could figure out but when I go to lessons we do discuss this kind of stuff, usually not calling it "strumming pattern", and often being flexible, but having some one give you hints about D U, etc.. can make something take 5 minutes to learn instead of hours.
.

I think there is a big difference between interacting with a teacher, who can quickly spot/correct things, encourage you to hear where an accent lies to get the right vibe and, for example, tell you to hit the upstroke where necessary......and this kind of formulaic approach of trying to learn songs by learning a sequences of down and upstrokes. If you always have to ask 'what is the pattern I am supposed to play?' when learning a new song you are not really developing a sense of rhythm which is essential for any musician.

[Yendoggy]

Originally Posted by DonB

I guess i am an intermediate player, but am finding the pattern for "Space Oddity" hard to learn. D**U D**U *UD* DUDU. Is this supposed to be 4 beats of sixteenth notes?

“Strum pattern” literally the only banned phase in my teaching studio. A horrificly flawed way to look at rhythm guitar.

Ugggg. I hate it so much.

[Yendoggy]

Seriously though. Find a teacher for one lesson and they should clear this up. Thinking in that way is SO flawed that u are really hurting your development.

[trueviper]

Try not to think about the strumm pattern too much. Instead just relax, play it how you feel it and above all just enjoy it!

When I first started learning covers on guitar I used to agonize about duplicating the original so it would sound exactly the same until whilst trying to get Bob Marley's Redemption song 'perfect' I stopped, took a deep breath and told myself to stop thinking about it and just be myself, play it and enjoy it. I then played the song as myself and was amazed at how easily I played it and how much I loved my own interpretation.

[WonderMonkey]

I'll give a different perspective.

Though I rely on strum pattern less and less, there was a time when I didn't rely on it AT ALL and got so frustrated I stopped playing. THEN, I focused on the stum pattern and measures and it allowed me to learn some songs. It was 100% what allowed me to progress and remove frustration. Now I LOOSELY learn the strum pattern and then feel from there.

SO .... some NEED that strum pattern. Know that some do. It allows them to get to the point where they may not need it. Please keep this in mind.

[mr. beaumont]

Another +1 for learning to actually read and count and ditch the "Dudu-Udus," as I jokingly call them with my students.

If you really get at what's written here, though, it is pretty much correct (though listening to the song, the rhythm guitar is not nearly so rigid as to be mandated as "one pattern")

16th note strums are often easiest to execute keeping a constant motion with the strumming hand and striking the strings when necessary.

[WonderMonkey]

I'll also say that it may be my lack of abilities which causes me to think the way I do, but I know if I had not focuses on strum pattern I would have been very frustrated. Possibly it's something that a quality instructor would have gotten me past, but it's what it is.

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by WonderMonkey

I'll give a different perspective.

Though I rely on strum pattern less and less, there was a time when I didn't rely on it AT ALL and got so frustrated I stopped playing. THEN, I focused on the stum pattern and measures and it allowed me to learn some songs. It was 100% what allowed me to progress and remove frustration. Now I LOOSELY learn the strum pattern and then feel from there.

SO .... some NEED that strum pattern. Know that some do. It allows them to get to the point where they may not need it. Please keep this in mind.

That's fine, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with strum patterns . I just think that, without a teacher, they can kind of solidify some wrong ways of thinking about things.

Strum patterns are a great shortcut to playing rhythm patterns, without really requiring good strumming technique. Again, that's fine, as long as long as it doesn't also yield the unintended consequence of NEVER learning good strumming technique or how to imply feels on your own, without asking other people what The Strum Pattern for a song is.

Strum patterns aren't feels. They imply feels. The same feel might be implied by different strum patterns though. at the end of the day, I think it is super valuable, long-term, to learn to imply feels in basic ways, beyond very specific strum patterns.

Long-term, you want to be able to do some basic things like:

1. Strum multiple measures of a single chord, using all quarter notes, and it still sound like 4/4. Accents on important beats etc.
2. Strum multiple measures of all 8th notes, so that it sounds like 4/4. Accents similar to quarters, but with secondary layers of less accented strums on the "&" of beats.
3. 8th note poly rhythms. (Syncopated accent patterns)
4. All-16th notes, again so that the feel implies relaxed 4/4.
5. 16th note poly rhythms. Etc etc...

If you can't strum ALL-sixteenths without it sounding like something that makes someone want to punch you in the face , that's a TECHNICAL problem which probably needs to be addressed at some point. If it sounds monotonous and the listener can't hear 4/4 in it, the problem is not the strum pattern. The strum pattern simply gets around the end of the technical problem. It doesn't mean that it never needs to be addressed.

Listen to old players. A lot of these guys can just strum something on every subdivision of the beat, yet the accent patterns are heard, almost as if they are "missing" subdivisions , like in strum patterns posted on the inter-webs. But they have really good touch and technique.

I probably just grew up listening to too much Eagles or something, but it always sounded like those types of bands were strumming all eights . Maybe just too many guitars in the mix, but that way of playing teaches you to play over just about anything , because you don't have to know where to "miss". It also forces you to clean up technique as well, because otherwise it just sounds awful.

When you can strum all subdivisions with good technique, you don't have to practice "missing" certain beats as a separate exercise. You can just do that automatically, when you already know how to imply feels. I think that learning to "miss" in the beginning is backwards and more difficult.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by WonderMonkey

I'll give a different perspective.

Though I rely on strum pattern less and less, there was a time when I didn't rely on it AT ALL and got so frustrated I stopped playing. THEN, I focused on the stum pattern and measures and it allowed me to learn some songs. It was 100% what allowed me to progress and remove frustration. Now I LOOSELY learn the strum pattern and then feel from there.

SO .... some NEED that strum pattern. Know that some do. It allows them to get to the point where they may not need it. Please keep this in mind.

Well said. I'm an analytical sort of personality. I like to understand it before I feel it. I have friends who learn by "feel" and while I can appreciate such an ability, it's never worked for me. I learn the pattern by slowing it down, getting it clean and then speeding up. With some of the patterns I've learned, I now could never tell you what the pattern is any more. It's become a feel for me, but the feel comes after the pattern for some.