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Old 04-09-2010, 11:54 AM
jeastman jeastman is offline
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Default Binding ideas - show me!

I'm excited to be working with the Burners on my first custom build. Here's the specs I have so far

Body Size: MS Model w/florentine cutaway
Back & Sides: African Blackwood
Top: Carpathian Spruce
Binding: flamed/curly maple, koa, ebony?

The sound hole, fretboard and headstock will be bound so I'm looking for some examples of dark-backed guitars with some of these bindings (or honestly anything else pretty you want to show off!)
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:00 PM
Huckleberry Huckleberry is offline
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Congrats on the new build!

African blackwood and spruce will give you a kind of monochrome look, so it's up to you what you do with the binding - you can go for dark and austere, light and contrasty, or warm it up.

This is my ABW Sheppard, with black ebony binding. A bit austere looking, but the red purfling lightens it up a bit - I think this is my 'Darth Vader' guitar:




Personally, I like the binding to 'warm up' a dark looking guitar. Even though the macassar ebony is not as dark as ABW, the cocobolo on my Hamblin really does warm it up:




Curly koa is also a great choice for a warmer colour.

I'm not a great fan of maple bindings (I usually find them a bit 'cold' looking), but they do add a contrast, as on this ABW Charis:




Or, go for some real bling, like the spalted maple bindings on riorider's lush looking Baranik:

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Old 04-09-2010, 01:44 PM
Jim Jim is offline
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My suggestion would be to go with a functional rather than purely decorative binding and then get your zing with a good purfling. Wood bindings are nice to look at but they are nearly useless in function. Binding is supposed to protect your edges from bumps and for that you need celluloid - not plastic but real celluloid bindings. It will be a bit more expensive than just wood bindings but it will really protect your guitar's edges from bumps. When celluloid binding is bumped hard it absorbs the shock and rebounds to its orginal shape. When wood binding is bumped it gets crushed and stays crushed and you have a permanent ding in it. If it gets bumped really hard it may not even fully protect the edge.

My two favorite celluloid bindings are tortoise shell and ivoroid.

Then, for your eye candy you can use pretty much any material that you like as the purfling. My favorite is Green Heart Abalone but it is really pricey and many people go with regular Green Abalone instead. Some who do not care for such nice purfling go with a marquetry wood purfling - the most common and traditional is herringbone but then your guitar looks like so many others. You can also get other marquetry designs however, and some of them are really beautiful.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:01 PM
David Hilyard David Hilyard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post

My two favorite celluloid bindings are tortoise shell and ivoroid.
I've always thought of celluloid bindings as something you'll find on factory produced guitars, mostly electric guitars or archtops. Hadn't considered them on custom built acoustics and can't think of who does this or offers celluloid as an advantage over custom wood bindings. Your points are valid, as far as durability, I just can't think of who does this in the realm of custom luthiers, where wood is considered so highly. Suggestions?
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:30 PM
cpabolting cpabolting is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hilyard View Post
I've always thought of celluloid bindings as something you'll find on factory produced guitars, mostly electric guitars or archtops. Hadn't considered them on custom built acoustics and can't think of who does this or offers celluloid as an advantage over custom wood bindings. Your points are valid, as far as durability, I just can't think of who does this in the realm of custom luthiers, where wood is considered so highly. Suggestions?
I have always been of the impression that real wood bindlings better transfer the sound on a guitar.
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Old 04-09-2010, 07:36 PM
Bryan T Bryan T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
Binding is supposed to protect your edges from bumps
Really? I always thought it was a cosmetic thing, primarily to hide the end-grain.
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:15 PM
David Hilyard David Hilyard is offline
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I guess you need a layer of something at the edge to "bind" the top to the side where it intersects, though it's glued underneath too. A finished edge and more cosmetic, I would think, but maybe wood helps the sound, too. I tend to think it's just aesthetics.

Doing a little searching, the vintage look of old Martins and Gibsons use white ivory or a synthetic ivoroid or synthetic tortorise shell. I never liked the look. Santa Cruz uses it on traditional models. I had a Gretsch Chet Atkins 6120 electric with it. I have moved on to like the organic look and feel of wood. Never had a problem with it that I wished I'd had a piece of plastic there.

Just wondering if any modern luthier advertises "Custom real celluloid bindings" as an option. I understand they have had some hazardous material issues in recent years, and they are really just plastic now.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:07 AM
jeastman jeastman is offline
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I'll tend to agree that I don't care for the look for a celluloid/plastic binding, no matter how functional. Honestly, with 3 kids under 5 a guitar in my house is as likely to get a ding anywhere.

I had been going back and forth between a flamed maple and koa. Thanks for posting those pictures, Huckleberry, making me think the ABW/maple, while very nice, is not what I'm going for.

Here's the back I'll be using.



So now I am back to thinking a koa (or maybe a snakewood) might bring a little color and figure to it. Trying to get a little something in there with the binding and rosette (I really like some of Michael Bashkin's). Paul and Kyle have been great so far working with me as my wood lust ebbs and flows. They should be sending me a picture of the top soon, so I think that will help getting the overall picture.

Love the suggestions, though. Keep them coming!
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:24 AM
ironman187 ironman187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpabolting View Post
I have always been of the impression that real wood bindlings better transfer the sound on a guitar.
How could it possibly do that? The binding serves two purposes (that I know of). It hides the joint between the top and the sides, and it strengthens said joint. It cannot affect how the top moves because the top is already glued to the kerfling and a bit of the side-wood. The guitar would sound the same whether the binding existed or not.

@ Op, try brushed aluminum, or some other material.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:27 AM
hnuuhiwa hnuuhiwa is offline
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Here's a Stehr ziricote with Koa bindings...





And my Mac Ebony with Mac Ebony bindings...







Maybe it'll give you some idea of Koa and Ebony bindings on a dark back/side wood.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:40 AM
jeastman jeastman is offline
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I wonder if the binding helps reign in the vibrations by stabilizing the lateral vibrations of the top. I would think the force applied from two sides (help from underneath by the kerfing and direct force from butting up against the binding) would help direct vibrations of the top more uniformly. But, functional or not, they can sure be purty.

Hnuuhiwa - thanks so much! Those pictures give me a great idea..seem to be a similar color as my back. I think the top might be a bit lighter than the Stehr and certainly lighter than the RW on the mac Eb. But man, what beautiful guitars.

Also, have you guys ever seen Bubinga binding? Would assume it might be similar to a koa. I've been trying to build this guitar out of woods from the places I've lived: Africa (hence ABW) and now Turkey (Carpathian Spruce top). Maybe I'll just grab a hunk of marble from the Hagia Sofia to use for the binding. It's not brushed aluminum, but with all that ABW somethings got to give it some weight, right?
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:48 AM
hnuuhiwa hnuuhiwa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeastman View Post
Also, have you guys ever seen Bubinga binding? Would assume it might be similar to a koa.
Here's a pic of a guitar with bubinga bindings from 12th Fret...Aloha, Hen

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  #13  
Old 04-10-2010, 07:26 AM
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Kitchen Guitars Kitchen Guitars is offline
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I would use Ebony with a thin white line between the binding and body
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnuuhiwa View Post
Here's a pic of a guitar with bubinga bindings from 12th Fret...Aloha, Hen

Every time I see Bubinga I think of Bugs Bunny LOL Ingabingabungabinga.
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaha Junkie View Post
I would use Ebony with a thin white line between the binding and body
I agree with YJ - I tend to like less contrasty (except, of course, for the cocobolo w/ spalted maple that Huckleberry posted first!!)...

Here's a pic of a Baranik with ebony bindings on Brazilian - not as dark obviously as your ABW, but you get the idea of "low contrast". The purfling is koa, I believe - but something like satinwood or koa or some other purfling with a color in the family of your other appointments would work, as well as white.



For me, the main decision is high or low contrast, and then how you want the colors to blend.

Also, just curious, your post about ABW and weight sounded like your ABW is light? Maybe my misread, but all ABW I've handled is very weighty!

Best - have fun with the build!!

rr/Phil
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