Seagull neck issue

[donnyb]

Hi , thanks for reading this.

I have a Seagull Acoustic , 2012 model on the bench, for a general 'service'.
A very nice instrument, in original condition.

The owner did not complain about any playing issues.

On an initial assessment of body and neck, the neck has a dip from the 4th to the 11th, but only on the bass side. The treble side is straight, with the relief difference between the two at the 8th fret .007".

So its .012" relief on the 6th string (fretted at 1st and 15th), and .005" relief on the 1st string.

I hate to use this word... but I suppose its a "twist" .

Is the only fix (or mitigating it) pulling most of the frets and re -radiusing the 16" fretboard ?

Regards,

[mirwa]

Not an uncommon problem, they either live with it or get it repaired

To repair if its really twisted would involve removing fretboard insert twin carbon rods and then reinstall fretboard

Small twists, yep pull the frets and relevel the board and refret, issue is in around another 5-10 yrs it will likely need doing again

Steev

[phavriluk]

This is a question, whose answer I don't know: Is there a practical problem here, i.e., is the instrument difficult to play? I infer that there's excess relief on the bass side of the neck. Is the player going to venture into that area enough to be upset by the distortion? Where I'm going is that Seagulls are not particularly costly (I loved my Walnut 12) and if the instrument remains playable, enjoy it as-is. If the owner thinks ease of play has become a problem, is buying another instrument instead of refretting and leveling the fingerboard on this one a consideration?

Thanks!

[donnyb]

Hey thanks again Mirwa.

Ive contacted the owner and he tells me it does have some '
"buzzing", but he is used to it and doesn't
bother him much.
I have another client who cant stand the minutest of buzzes, so , yeah...

[donnyb]

I know what you mean viz., "Does it really matter ?"
As I implied to Mirwa above, in this case, probably not.

I have the gear so I can do the fretboard job if he wants, but there's always a chance of "I wish I didn't do this job", when some FB chipping occurs !y
15 years back I had a Peavey guitar (sorry..a solid body) with a terrible twisted neck. Tried steaming, which worked. For 12 weeks that is.

So I did and experiment with it. I knew where the rogue grains were in the clear lacquered maple neck, so I cut through these with a small powersaw . About 8"" cut, 1/4" deep. Epoxied the cut, sanded and painted the neck to match the body colour. Its still straight as . I wont be recommending that method though !

[Fathand]

I had a mahogany banjo neck twisted like that but more drastically. I removed fretboard, glued on 2 layers of mahogany veneer, sanded it flat, re-installed fretboard.

[Piercast]

Originally Posted by donnyb

Hey thanks again Mirwa.

Ive contacted the owner and he tells me it does have some '
"buzzing", but he is used to it and doesn't
bother him much.
I have another client who cant stand the minutest of buzzes, so , yeah...

I bet the buzzing occurs in the treble side, where there's less relief. Or at the first fret because of a low nut. I'd first do a full set-up, set relief to an in-between setting so it’s playing fine both sides, adjust action at the bridge, check the nut, replace as necessary. Those guitars have fast-wearing nuts, I replace lots that have had a few years of playing. You might find it's not worth going to any further length to get it playing good enough for your customer. That's a Seagull, not a Collings, ;-) so good enough to play correctly is good enough IMHO.

My 2 cents about it : A bad piece of wood is just that. You might not win the battle in the long run and this is the kind of job that might hurt your reputation in a few years when the twist returns and the customer becomes frustrated about it.

[John Arnold]

0.007" difference is not a lot of twist. If the frets are tall enough, you could take some of it out by selectively leveling them. That would mean milling 0.003" or 0.004" off the middle frets on the treble edge, and a similar amount off the frets at each end of the neck on the bass edge.
In my experience, reducing the twist to a relief difference of 0.003" or less will improve the performance greatly, and that would mean even less fret milling that I indicated.

[Piercast]

Definitely heed John's advice if the setup isn't giving good results.

[Birdbrain]

Seagulls have a lifetime warranty, you know.

[donnyb]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

0.007" difference is not a lot of twist. If the frets are tall enough, you could take some of it out by selectively leveling them. That would mean milling 0.003" or 0.004" off the middle frets on the treble edge, and a similar amount off the frets at each end of the neck on the bass edge.
In my experience, reducing the twist to a relief difference of 0.003" or less will improve the performance greatly, and that would mean even less fret milling that I indicated.

Thankyou John. Coincidentally, I was having a conversation with Mirwa on this very same thing, in general, that is. I put it this way...could I dress a counterclockwise "twist" in the neck via the frets (4-11) , which have .045" height on average.

Though, I hadn't thought about milling the bass side at each end of the neck as its already got .012" relief.
Probably a dumb question, but, what happens to playing feel, if you leave the bass side un-milled ?

[donnyb]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

Seagulls have a lifetime warranty, you know.

Thanks for the heads up, I will check with the owner.

[donnyb]

Originally Posted by Piercast

I bet the buzzing occurs in the treble side, where there's less relief. Or at the first fret because of a low nut. I'd first do a full set-up, set relief to an in-between setting so it’s playing fine both sides, adjust action at the bridge, check the nut, replace as necessary. Those guitars have fast-wearing nuts, I replace lots that have had a few years of playing. You might find it's not worth going to any further length to get it playing good enough for your customer. That's a Seagull, not a Collings, ;-) so good enough to play correctly is good enough IMHO.

My 2 cents about it : A bad piece of wood is just that. You might not win the battle in the long run and this is the kind of job that might hurt your reputation in a few years when the twist returns and the customer becomes frustrated about it.

Thankyou . That seems like good advice for the first move.
The buzzing is on the treble side.

I have only done an initial look at the guitar, noticing the twist by sight using the Ist and 6th as straight edges. And thinking "dang, not a good start".
There may also be rocking frets at play.

Tomorrow I'll do a full assessment and a set up and see how it all feels and sounds , hopefully reaching a reasonable outcome via bridge adjustment as you suggest.

[donnyb]

Originally Posted by Fathand

I had a mahogany banjo neck twisted like that but more drastically. I removed fretboard, glued on 2 layers of mahogany veneer, sanded it flat, re-installed fretboard.

Good work !

[donnyb]

Originally Posted by John Arnold

0.007" difference is not a lot of twist. If the frets are tall enough, you could take some of it out by selectively leveling them. That would mean milling 0.003" or 0.004" off the middle frets on the treble edge, and a similar amount off the frets at each end of the neck on the bass edge.
In my experience, reducing the twist to a relief difference of 0.003" or less will improve the performance greatly, and that would mean even less fret milling that I indicated.

John,
Re my dumb question ( to your reply) as to why suggest dressing the bass side.
At 3am this morning, I got it.