Frets will not seat on fretboard extension

[SColumbusSt]

I've glued the neck on my current OM build but cannot for life of me get the frets to seat on fingerboard extension (I only fretted up to the 14th fret prior to attaching the neck). This is my third build and I have not had this problem before. The bottom of the fretboard extension was not perfectly level with the top when I glued on the neck and I'm guessing the downward pressure I applied to it when gluing it on opened the fret slots just enough so the frets will not seat.

Should I order fretwire with a larger tang or try supergluing the fret ends down? I'm sure there are plenty of other solutions I have not thought of so please share any experience you have. Thanks!

[Mike-Donmoyer]

I can understand your frustration .. until you get your fretting procedures down pat, new "issues" seem to pop up. Would you be able to post some photos of your situation? With couple questions answered below myself or maybe one of the other members can find a good solution for you

Are you fretting the neck with it attached to the body or can it be fretted off of the body?

Did you cut the frets slots yourself? if so, handsaw, tablesaw blade etc?

Is the fretboard bound or are the fret slots open at the edges?

What type of wood is the fingerboard?

Hope we can find a solution for you, don't let the wind out of your sails just yet!

-Mike

[SColumbusSt]

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the words of encouragement! Have no fear, I've overcome much worse in my first two builds to let a little thing like frets not seating get me down .

-The dovetail neck is now attached to the body. I fretted up to the 14th fret with an arbor press prior to gluing the fretboard to the neck. No issues getting those frets to seat properly.

-StewMac cut the fret slots. I'm using the same wire for the extension as I did for the first 14 frets.

-It's an ebony board, no binding so the fret slots are open at the edges.

Here's a picture. I'm using the honing stone as the backer when I attempt to tap the frets in. I can seat the frets on one end but when I attempt on the opposite end what I just did pops up. Even with one end appearing firmly seated I can remove the fret with the tiniest bit of upward pressure from a finger.

Thanks for any help!

[phavriluk]

I can speak only of my experience, and when I had to resolve a similar fretting problem, I found better results when the frets were over-bent, so that the ends were on the fingerboard while the center stood above the fingerboard.

Also not a bad idea for me was to get all the frets installed before I joined the neck to the body.

[SColumbusSt]

Thanks for the advice! I've already got a pretty good radius on the fretwire, in fact I was thinking maybe I overdid it and that was the source of my problem. I tried flattening it out some but that didn't solve the problem. I'll go the opposite direction and put in a crescent moon curve and see it that helps.

From my newbee research I found there are so many schools of thought when it comes to when to fret the extension. I suppose none are wrong and all are correct. My first few instruments were uke kits and I found if I fretted the extension it was really hard to set the neck properly. The extension bowed up under the compression of the frets and I couldn't get a good read on the neck angle with a straight edge. Using the google I found recommendations to not fret the extension until the neck angle is set and the neck attached. Worked for my first two guitar builds but perhaps I just got lucky.

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by SColumbusSt

Using the google I found recommendations to not fret the extension until the neck angle is set and the neck attached. Worked for my first two guitar builds but perhaps I just got lucky.

Not that it helps your current situation, but +1 for fretting the entire fretboard prior to installation.

You can set the neck using just the top surface of the neck for your reference. A straight edge on that surface should show a rise from the joint to the bridge location of 1/16 to 1/8 (14 fret dread, 25.4 scale length, and don’t quote me because I’m operating without my notes, and only one cup of coffee).

Glue the fretboard to the neck after the neck set is dialed in.

For your current situation, superglue has always been helpful for me if I had a reluctant fret.

[Splinters]

I had a devil of a time with the frets on my guitar. It was a StewMac ebony pre- slotted board and the .147 wire. I don’t know why it was so difficult. I had a really hard time getting the wire started. After tapping them down, a lot of the frets just didn’t hold. I didn’t want to use superglue but ended up using it after the first few gave me problems. I ended up re glueing a bunch of the ends back down.

[Zigeuner]

Here you go. I made one of these when I saw the price that StewMac was getting. This makes it possible to tap frets in after the neck is seated without frets on the bullnose portion of the fingerboard.

Truth to tell, however, on a new fingerboard, I do all of the frets on an arbor press with a curved arbor before installation.


https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...mac-fret-buck/

[IndianHillMike]

You should be able to get things to sit using a fret crimper. StewMac sells one but you also might be able to come up with a similar method on your own. Basically it puts a zig-zag in the fret tang effectively making it wider and able to hold in wide slots. Alternatively, if you have any means to press the frets in over the body (something akin to the Jaws2 that StewMac sells) you could put a little hide glue in the slot, quickly press the fret in, and hold for a minute (I hide glue all of my frets). It looks like you have an unbound fingerboard so I don't think using CA is on option. And even with glue, it would still be more ideal to have the tang bite into the fingerboard which might not happen unless you use a crimper of some sorts.

Do you have any feeler gauges? It would be worth checking how wide the slots are and if they splayed open while being glued to the body. Good luck!

[Skarsaune]

Originally Posted by IndianHillMike

It looks like you have an unbound fingerboard so I don't think using CA is on option. And even with glue, it would still be more ideal to have the tang bite into the fingerboard which might not happen unless you use a crimper of some sorts.

Hey Mike, curious why you say using CA isn't an option for an unbound fretboard? I guess if it's the only thing holding the fret and the fret slot is flooded, it would run out the ends.

When I've used CA on unbound fretboards, it's merely two dots. More of an assist than anything.

Agree getting the tang to bite is the key. Thanks for the crimper tip.

[SColumbusSt]

Originally Posted by IndianHillMike

You should be able to get things to sit using a fret crimper. StewMac sells one but you also might be able to come up with a similar method on your own. Basically it puts a zig-zag in the fret tang effectively making it wider and able to hold in wide slots. Alternatively, if you have any means to press the frets in over the body (something akin to the Jaws2 that StewMac sells) you could put a little hide glue in the slot, quickly press the fret in, and hold for a minute (I hide glue all of my frets). It looks like you have an unbound fingerboard so I don't think using CA is on option. And even with glue, it would still be more ideal to have the tang bite into the fingerboard which might not happen unless you use a crimper of some sorts.

Do you have any feeler gauges? It would be worth checking how wide the slots are and if they splayed open while being glued to the body. Good luck!

A big thanks to everyone for the advice. I checked out the StewMac crimper but it was more than I would like to spend. Frank Ford has bailed me out more than a few times so I spent some time looking around Frets.com and came across this post about "fattening" up a fret tang.

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...nd/badend.html

I used a dinged up old chisel and a hammer and with a lot of trial and error (and ruined fret wire) I managed to finish the job. I did have to superglue two fret ends down that were just sticking up a little bit.

Sounds like the majority opinion is to fret the whole fingerboard prior to installing it. Makes sense on so many levels including ease of dressing the fret ends, I'll try it on my next build.

That fret buck is a serious looking piece of equipment! If I ever get into repair work I can see how that would come in handy when re-fretting an acoustic guitar. Beats holding a little block of stone through the soundhole like I've been doing. Thanks again everyone.

[IndianHillMike]

Originally Posted by Skarsaune

Hey Mike, curious why you say using CA isn't an option for an unbound fretboard? I guess if it's the only thing holding the fret and the fret slot is flooded, it would run out the ends.

Exactly -- it's definitely do-able using CA with an unbound fretboard if you've got a little experience and you're careful but on a third build it might be pushing one's luck.

Originally Posted by SColumbusSt

Sounds like the majority opinion is to fret the whole fingerboard prior to installing it. Makes sense on so many levels including ease of dressing the fret ends, I'll try it on my next build.

For how I build I'm pretty strongly in the other camp but as long as you plan for it (how you aim the neck and deal with the neck to body transition) you can definitely make it work.