Hi, been lurking and want to ask a question

[gcdcpakmbs]

I've been taking classical guitar lessons for about 7 years and have an Alvarez-Yairi Y-200. I play mostly for my own enjoyment, do not perform. I like the idea of playing with other people, so I thought I'd start learning some blues, rock, country, whatever. A year or so ago, I picked up a used 2005 Gibson Advanced Jumbo because I got what appeared to be a killer deal on it but never really played it. So I picked it up recently and it just didn't play very well. Took it to a luthier in town who builds archtops and had him set it up. Now it plays quite well. But... it's not the right guitar for me. It's too nice, so I have to treat it too well. Humidity, temperature, scratches, etc. On paper what I want is a travel-sized guitar that I can take to the gulf beach (warm, 85% humidity), and to the Wyoming mountains (cool, 7% humidity). And drag around to peoples back yards. So I probably need to sell the Gibson and buy a CF. No music store here in town, so I can't play a 3/4 size guitar to try it out. Should I definitely do that before buying one that small? Thanks, all the feedback I read on this forum is really good so I hope people will chime in. Thank you.

[gcdcpakmbs]

Also, I would like to record myself for learning purposes. Make backing tracks and such. What do you recommend?

[Earl49]

Welcome! You have several priorities, and any one design will be optimized for some and not ideal for others. I suggest you try to rank-order what you want it to do.

Answering the question, for travel purposes and environmental durability the main candidates are: Rainsong Parlor, Blackbird Savoy, Emerald X7, McPherson Touring, and the Journey OF660. Composite Acoustics Cargo (recently no longer in production) would also be a good option. Better acoustic tone will be achieved by larger composite guitars like a Rainsong OM, Blackbird El Capitan, Emerald X20, and McPherson Sable. For recording your own backing tracks and practice, the on-board electronics plugged in directly should work fine, but won't be studio quality. A simple outboard microphone would give better recorded tone than almost any on-board pickup system.

Call Ted at LA Guitar Sales, as he can give you good advice and sells all of the brands except Emerald. (Emerald only sells factory direct, but has a very good return policy).

[gcdcpakmbs]

Thanks Earl, you've given me quite a bit to look at before I call.

[Earl49]

Happy to help a potential carbonista. Ted has probably sold more carbon fiber guitars than anybody else, and I understand that he even owns an X20 for personal curiosity, even though he does not sell them. Good luck in your quest! I happen to own the Emerald X7 (and others like the X20 and X30), the Blackbird Lucky 13 and the CA Cargo, but have played most of the others too.

[Jim in TC]

Originally Posted by gcdcpakmbs

Should I definitely do that before buying one that small? Thanks, all the feedback I read on this forum is really good so I hope people will chime in. Thank you.

Of course, trying out a guitar before purchase is always best, but as many have found, CF instruments are not always conveniently stocked by your local guitar shop. I was hesitant to buy before trying; Elderly Instruments is not all that far from us so I managed to contrive a trip through Lansing to try a CA Cargo a couple years back. Even though, as it was handed to me, my first thought was that it was little more than a toy (it is SO small) I left with it. Very impressive sound from a wee thing. I am no longer "afraid" of CF and now have an Emerald (X7 - I like the smaller ones) on order. CF certainly ticks off the environmental categories you list. I have now tried out a sampling of other brands and models and there is no compromise in tone. Of course, each differs from the other and, as always, YMMV.

[tbeltrans]

It is a slippery slope, so just beware. Paraphrasing the old potato chip ad, "bet you can't own just one".



Tony

[RP]

You didn't mention a budget so I'm going to recommend a Rainsong Al Petteway Special Edition....https://www.rainsong.com/concert/apse. It's not cheap, but it would probably check off all of the boxes for you...

[casualmusic]

Originally Posted by gcdcpakmbs

I've been taking classical guitar lessons for about 7 years and have an Alvarez-Yairi Y-200. I play mostly for my own enjoyment, do not perform. I like the idea of playing with other people, so I thought I'd start learning some blues, rock, country, whatever...



...On paper what I want is a travel-sized guitar that I can take to the gulf beach (warm, 85% humidity), and to the Wyoming mountains (cool, 7% humidity). And drag around to peoples back yards. So I probably need to sell the Gibson and buy a CF. No music store here in town, so I can't play a 3/4 size guitar to try it out. Should I definitely do that before buying one that small?

Thank you.

Hi GC

I've been playing for about four years and play in different song circles a few times each week. Folk, old-time, Celtic, bluegrass, country rock, pop and ukulele singalongs.


You'll need a guitar big enough and loud enough to hear yourself meld with other players in the song circle, and to be heard when it's your turn to play a solo or lead a song.

When playing outdoors the sound goes out and away - more loudness is always welcome.


It's best not to get fixated on small quiet travel guitars unless it's absolutely necessary.

I have a small Cargo carbon fibre guitar that is great for personal practise and study, but not useful for jamming with even one full size instrument.


When I arrive at a destination I want a guitar that is big enough to play in an acoustic jam or pace a dozen people in a singalong. If you are alternating between two locations it may be feasible to have a guitar at each place

For car travel it's a balance amongst peolple, luggage and guiters.

For air travel you'll find it useful to read up on the changes to regulations and policies that make it easier to bring bigger music instruments in the passenger cabin.


Some guitars that detach or fold can fit into into a case the same size as 22" x 16" x 9" carry-on luggage.

Others guitar designs reduce bulk through:
- necks that are shorter scale than 25.5" or have 12 frets (instead of 14) beyond the body
- by having moderate body length and width, combined with extra thickness


Carbon fibre guitars are relatively scarce, only a few thousand total are made each year by a handful of companies. Scarcity makes easy to resell the well known carbon fibre brands the on AGF and other places.

To try them out you'll need to track down retailers and friendly owners. And look for Internet retailers who have a few days of no questions return policy.


Enya music has a distribution warehouse in Houston. Guitars to try out are:
- the X3 has a carbon fibre soundboard, an HPL laminate body, and a bolt-on wood neck.
- the X4 is all carbon fibre with fixed neck
- Enya developed a great reputation with ukuleles
- Enya guitars are new to North America and may need some time to adapt to our tastes.


Journey Instruments has a distribution warehouse in Cedar Park near Austin.
- perhaps try out the medium size carbon fibre RoadTrip RT660 which is all carbon fibre with a bolt-on neck. It's likely a bit small for regular jam sessions.
- Journey started a few years ago with small guitars with removable necks and luggage style cases that fit into airline overhead bins. They are adding medium size guitars.


KLOS Guitars has a factory and warehouse in Provo near Salt Lake City
- one mid size guitar has a carbon fibre body and bolt-on wood necjk
- the newer guitar has carbon fibre body and a bolt-on carbon fibre neck
- I'll ask our local retailer who's buying them and if they're effective at jam sessions. Might be a bit small for reular jam sessions.
- Journey started a few years with small carbon fiber travel guitars and added medium size carbon fibre guitars


Rainsong Guitars (25+ years in the business) has a factory in Woodenville near Seattle.
- the OM size is single piece carbon fibre
- the WS size is thicker with a fuller sound
- the DR series has a body 1" longer and a fraction wider
- I've played all of these and my choice for a Rainsong travel would be the NS 12 fret version of the WS size which is only a bit wider but a lot thicker than the OM. I love my H-DR/T for being effortlessly loud the same as the other dreadnoughts at bluegrass jams.

Composite Acoustics in near Atlanta appears to be clearing out stock preparing the close
- the GX series is a single piece carbon fibre

Emerald Guitars in Ireland (20 years in the business) sells only via internet:
- X20 is medium size with thicker body
- X7 is medium-small; I think it might be OK for playing with 2-3 people but not in jam sessions with 6-12
- I've not had a chance to try Emeralds. Members on this forum like them.


LA Guitar Sales in Los Angeles is the biggest carbon guitar retailer and carries all guitars except Emerald
- excellent advice, sales and service


And if you were my next door neighbour I'd suggest that a good starting point might be either:
a) if you're in a hurry Rainsong DR or WS (and the $75 tobacco burst finish so it blends visually into the jam session scene), or
b) begin with the nicest wood guitar you can find in the $600-1000 range and take it to jam sessions for a few months for some hands on experience and clarify your expectations before getting a $2-3000 carbon fibre guitar.


Cheers.

[gcdcpakmbs]

Thank you all very much for the input. A great response. I'm not in a huge hurry, but anxious just the same. Again, this forum seems to be full of very helpful and genuine folks.

[RP]

Originally Posted by gcdcpakmbs

...this forum seems to be full of very helpful and genuine folks.

Nah, we just like to spend other peoples' money...

[mikealpine]

I didn't see this asked or answered, but could have missed it...are you looking for something that will need to fit in the overhead compartment of an airplane? That will, in part, dictate the size of the instrument you can buy.

[ac]

gcdcpakmbs,

There are more builders than you might imagine. A list of their names is found here:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=559816

[jwellsy]

Originally Posted by gcdcpakmbs

this forum seems to be full of very helpful and genuine folks.

I think that's code for enablers

[latentaudio]

Originally Posted by gcdcpakmbs

I've been taking classical guitar lessons for about 7 years and have an Alvarez-Yairi Y-200. I play mostly for my own enjoyment, do not perform. I like the idea of playing with other people, so I thought I'd start learning some blues, rock, country, whatever. A year or so ago, I picked up a used 2005 Gibson Advanced Jumbo because I got what appeared to be a killer deal on it but never really played it. So I picked it up recently and it just didn't play very well. Took it to a luthier in town who builds archtops and had him set it up. Now it plays quite well. But... it's not the right guitar for me. It's too nice, so I have to treat it too well. Humidity, temperature, scratches, etc. On paper what I want is a travel-sized guitar that I can take to the gulf beach (warm, 85% humidity), and to the Wyoming mountains (cool, 7% humidity). And drag around to peoples back yards. So I probably need to sell the Gibson and buy a CF. No music store here in town, so I can't play a 3/4 size guitar to try it out. Should I definitely do that before buying one that small? Thanks, all the feedback I read on this forum is really good so I hope people will chime in. Thank you.

+1 on the Enya recommendation. I have an X3 4/4 size. It’s just as loud as my Taylor 214 but it has a bit more midrange. They also have a 3/4 model which supposedly is parlor sized. And with a price less than $400, you can keep the Gibson!

One thing, you will need to adjust the Enya action. Mine was pretty much unplayable when I got it. But about 20 minutes of sanding the saddle fixed that.