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  #46  
Old 02-13-2021, 11:05 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Recording a verse >stopping ,,,recording a chorus > stopping ,,, recording another verse > stopping etc. etc.
Hmm... I guess because I'm used to my own method, I didn't take the word "sections" as meaning well-defined starting and stopping points. I assumed that any section would have some lead in and extra material on the backside in order to find the best front and end points to use in the section being addressed.

The way I work is I'll start recording from the beginning and I'll continue each take until I make a mistake. I'll do that 5-6 times and then give a listen and start the comping process to see how far along I am. Then I'll start recording again from a place 4-8 bars behind where I need to pick the song up again. I repeat the process till I have a complete track I'm happy with.

I don't think I could pull it off with hard starts and stops at the beginning and end of each song section. I think it would have too unnatural a feel for me.
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  #47  
Old 02-13-2021, 11:09 AM
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I just see that as a different way of organizing the process. All good input being shared here, nobody's off topic. Thanks, everyone.
I didn't mean to complain :-) it's a conversation, and it goes where it goes. Gluing a few sections together is just a simple form of the bigger picture, and we often get this "is it cheating" discussion around that. I was just commenting on my view of that.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:21 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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I didn't mean to complain :-) it's a conversation, and it goes where it goes. Gluing a few sections together is just a simple form of the bigger picture, and we often get this "is it cheating" discussion around that. I was just commenting on my view of that.
No harm no foul. :-) And I guess that if classical and movie score conductors don't think it's cheating (and I'm an eyewitness that they don't), then neither do I.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:23 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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I didn't mean to complain :-) it's a conversation, and it goes where it goes. Gluing a few sections together is just a simple form of the bigger picture, and we often get this "is it cheating" discussion around that. I was just commenting on my view of that.
I am so sorry I ever mentioned that word, "cheating."

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Old 02-13-2021, 11:39 AM
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Hmm... I guess because I'm used to my own method, I didn't take the word "sections" as meaning well-defined starting and stopping points. I assumed that any section would have some lead in and extra material on the backside in order to find the best front and end points to use in the section being addressed.

The way I work is I'll start recording from the beginning and I'll continue each take until I make a mistake. I'll do that 5-6 times and then give a listen and start the comping process to see how far along I am. Then I'll start recording again from a place 4-8 bars behind where I need to pick the song up again. I repeat the process till I have a complete track I'm happy with.

I don't think I could pull it off with hard starts and stops at the beginning and end of each song section. I think it would have too unnatural a feel for me.
I simply thought that was what the OP question was about. Could be I assumed it because being a home baked songwriter, and in songwriter circles that is usually meant by sections. Verse, chorus, bridge or AABA etc.
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Old 02-13-2021, 11:42 AM
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No harm no foul. :-) And I guess that if classical and movie score conductors don't think it's cheating (and I'm an eyewitness that they don't), then neither do I.
Yeah, my understanding (with no personal experience) is that the classical world does way, way more of this than, say fingerstyle guitarists like what Bob is asking about. You wouldn't expect it at first thought, but then there's that whole perfection aspect.
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:18 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Yeah, my understanding (with no personal experience) is that the classical world does way, way more of this than, say fingerstyle guitarists like what Bob is asking about. You wouldn't expect it at first thought, but then there's that whole perfection aspect.
That, and with that many players in a less-than-soundproof hall or church playing relatively long pieces, a lot can happen. Besides, the classical folks used to edit a lot even when it was razorblades. So now, with the Undo button, they feel even more free to "explore possibilities."
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Old 02-13-2021, 12:24 PM
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I am so sorry I ever mentioned that word, "cheating."

- Glenn
Absolutely not because itís fair game in this discussion and I appreciate your perspective.
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  #54  
Old 02-13-2021, 01:31 PM
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I didn't take the word "sections" as meaning well-defined starting and stopping points. I assumed that any section would have some lead in and extra material on the backside in order to find the best front and end points to use in the section being addressed.
It's a bit vague, for sure. I'll often record in "sections", as in "I made a mistake in the chorus, so I'll re-record the entire chorus". It's not planned that way ahead of time, but often seems to be the easiest way to break things up. It also seems to allow for the best editing as you have more leeway to find a suitable crossover point.

Other times, though, I will just punch in for a few measures, or even a few notes. It really depends on the type and location of the mistake I want to fix.
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Old 02-13-2021, 02:09 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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"do you glue sections together"

As simply another aside here, the process in recording software of cutting and pasting is the same whether a person is taking pieces from a group of takes to assemble a "best" take or whether a person is patching in just one section to fix some technical problem, such as unwanted or extraneous noise. I think our tendency to discuss more than just gluing sections together is because the editing process is pretty much the same.

The process of "punching in" to create a best vocal take, something I have done many, many times on pure audio recordings, is not the same process in that the cutting and pasting is not done literally, though figuratively in my mind it seems very similar.

Brent Hahn's comments that folks in the classical world do a fair amount of editing like this is very interesting and new information to me. That's fascinating. I had no idea.

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  #56  
Old 02-13-2021, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
"do you glue sections together"

As simply another aside here, the process in recording software of cutting and pasting is the same whether a person is taking pieces from a group of takes to assemble a "best" take or whether a person is patching in just one section to fix some technical problem, such as unwanted or extraneous noise. I think our tendency to discuss more than just gluing sections together is because the editing process is pretty much the same.

The process of "punching in" to create a best vocal take, something I have done many, many times on pure audio recordings, is not the same process in that the cutting and pasting is not done literally, though figuratively in my mind it seems very similar.

Brent Hahn's comments that folks in the classical world do a fair amount of editing like this is very interesting and new information to me. That's fascinating. I had no idea.

- Glenn
When I was in a pro studio we did the punch in method for vocal. And it worked very well.
At home I almost always do looped multiple takes (with each take going all the way through the song ). And generally I will use the one that I think sounds the best as my primary and if there is any screwup, off note ,unwanted sound, etc. I will replace that with the appropriate clip from one of the other takes.

The other reason I do multiple takes on vocals I actually also got into the habit (maybe just lazy) of using words and or whole phrases from the other takes to work as intermittent "backup vocals".

The thing about looped multiple takes or "looped multiple playlists" as it's called in Pro Tools .. is you can monitor the other instruments while recording but you're only hearing the one vocal take you are currently recording (and not the previous takes) Now this presents an interesting situation, in that since you do not hear the previous takes it becomes a challenge to see how close in timing you make each take . If your close enough then they work as backup vocals.
I keep intending to start actually recording backups in the more traditional method of monitoring the vocal and intentionally singing backup bust keep procrastinating
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  #57  
Old 02-15-2021, 08:34 PM
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I've even done fairly short tunes in pieces. This tune, Marble Halls, is 3 pages long and is in a book. Most of the tunes I play are in pdf format but for what I have in books I'll usually photo copy the odd page that isn't face to face with another, but I had forgotten to and already had my butt in recording position

The splice is at about the 35 second mark:

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  #58  
Old 02-23-2021, 03:42 PM
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It took awhile to get away from the habit of starting over if I messed up a part while recording a song. With digital editing capability, I've learned to just keep recording after a goof, or re-recording parts that I think can be done better. Easy enough to then go back and delete as much as I want. What's really cool is to zoom in on the tracks and be able to cut-and-paste parts together pretty much seamlessly. So...I guess I could say that, yeah, I do sort of record songs in sections - or at least put them together that way once I have the initial guitar track laid down. I won't add any extra tracks till I know the main lead track is no longer in need of any additional editing. Most time consuming part of the whole process is all the editing/mixing. Gave me a whole new appreciation for what studio engineers must do.
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  #59  
Old 02-24-2021, 02:14 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Gave me a whole new appreciation for what studio engineers must do.
Whether it's stuff like this, or making a complicated record, or doing audio for a movie, the main idea is the same. You beat your brains out on every tiny detail, with the goal being the impression that you didn't do a darn thing.
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Old 02-24-2021, 04:23 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Whether it's stuff like this, or making a complicated record, or doing audio for a movie, the main idea is the same. You beat your brains out on every tiny detail, with the goal being the impression that you didn't do a darn thing.
When I first started down this road it was a time-consuming chore to get clean sounding comp tracks in Pro Tools. Just about every edit resulted in clicks or pops that you had to zoom all the way in on and correct with the drawing tool which didn't always do what you wanted it to do. When crossfades came along, it really cut down on the time it took to comp tracks. And now there's auto crossfades and it's even quicker.

But that *@&# drawing tool... the only way I got it to work was if I made a quick, smooth, sweep, and even then it was very hit or miss. It wasn't unusual to have to attempt the edit 4 or 5 times before you got a smooth line that wouldn't introduce another click or pop.
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