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  #16  
Old 11-03-2022, 03:46 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by Italuke View Post
When I was ten, in 1968, learning to play popular music on the organ, I dreamed of such a magical device. Then somebody else invented MIDI.
Right. But we're still waiting for someone to do the same thing for audio input.

I.e., MIDI is easy once you realise that a keyboard is just a bank of switches - and that they can produce digital data rather than sounds. So getting from pressing a key to putting a note symbol on the staff bypasses the whole messy business of producing sound on the way.

MIDI guitar pickups went one further and used convertors to change the vibrations into digital data.

But in both cases the notation they spat out needed a whole load of editing and formatting. Easy enough to get the pitches correct. But the timing depended on deciding on a time signature first, playing to a click, and then quantizing the output.

The problem is that staff notation is not a direct analogue of the sounds. It's a system of symbols that require translation, both from sound into symbol, and then from symbol to sound by a reader. In a sense it's the same problem as getting software to produce text from speech. It can be done, but produces all kinds of weird artefacts on the way, because of how people pronounce words, or blur syllables together, or use unusual accents. And speech doesn't even have the issue of symbols representing duration, whicih notation depends upon.
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Last edited by JonPR; 11-03-2022 at 03:51 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-03-2022, 02:38 PM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Right. But we're still waiting for someone to do the same thing for audio input.

I.e., MIDI is easy once you realise that a keyboard is just a bank of switches - and that they can produce digital data rather than sounds. So getting from pressing a key to putting a note symbol on the staff bypasses the whole messy business of producing sound on the way.

MIDI guitar pickups went one further and used convertors to change the vibrations into digital data.

But in both cases the notation they spat out needed a whole load of editing and formatting. Easy enough to get the pitches correct. But the timing depended on deciding on a time signature first, playing to a click, and then quantizing the output.

The problem is that staff notation is not a direct analogue of the sounds. It's a system of symbols that require translation, both from sound into symbol, and then from symbol to sound by a reader. In a sense it's the same problem as getting software to produce text from speech. It can be done, but produces all kinds of weird artefacts on the way, because of how people pronounce words, or blur syllables together, or use unusual accents. And speech doesn't even have the issue of symbols representing duration, whicih notation depends upon.
So we need Google Translate for music ? oh great can't wait.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2022, 08:28 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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This is something I have long wanted - and have been told multiple times not to expect it. Once I bought an app (long forgotten) and a USB mike and tried it out. First, notes other than the melody line confuses it, things like chord. I am used to playing accompaniment to my melody and it was harder than I anticipated to pare it down to just the melody line.

The results were.... sorta right. But by the time i went into it and made the needed changes, i found it was just quicker and easier to write it out long-hand, like I have done for decades.

Still... I can always hope. What I envision would save me a great deal of effort and time if it existed.. For now, it would be easier to just to learn to play keyboard, not that I ever will.
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Last edited by The Bard Rocks; 11-22-2022 at 09:11 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2022, 10:32 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
Still... I can always hope. What I envision would save me a great deal of effort and time if it existed.. For now, it would be easier to just to learn to play keyboard, not that i ever will.
Or get a midi pickup.
https://youtu.be/_Ts_Av5IGUk?t=156
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2022, 07:08 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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For an acoustic guitar? I have seen pickups of course but suspect a midi p/u is a horse of another color.
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The Bard Rocks

Fay OM Sinker Redwood/Tiger Myrtle
Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia For Sale
Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk
Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany
Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle
MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood
Goodman J45 Lutz/fiddleback Mahogany
Blackbird "Lucky 13" - carbon fiber
'31 National Duolian
+ many other stringed instruments.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2022, 03:31 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
For an acoustic guitar? I have seen pickups of course but suspect a midi p/u is a horse of another color.
Well, you could get one 30 years ago!

Here's Bert Jansch using one in 1992:

https://youtu.be/DONv5nqjbsE?t=1333

The PC is an Atari ST, and the software is C-Lab Notator - obviously both obsolete long ago!
And what that doesn't show is the lengthy process of editing the resulting notation to make it readable by a human (the small clip you see is not aligned properly with the time signature, so doesn't represent the intended timing).

I think he was using a Roland GK-2 pickup (or something earlier and similar) and the GK-3 is still available. The pickup itself is not MIDI (it's magnetic, so only works with steel strings) but attaches to a convertor, and picks up each string individually (the software records it as six separate tracks that then needs merging to one for notation).

Discussion here: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=197293

Demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ribasWmfvvs

I.e., most people use them to operate synths, but it produces MIDI data, so can be input into sequencing software for translation to notation.
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Last edited by JonPR; 11-14-2022 at 03:55 AM.
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