When is a Guitar "New"?

[davidbeinct]

My church has been gifted a Yamaha APX600 from a local guitar shop. It was originally used as a raffle gift at a pass the guitar event at church. The person who won it immediately gave it back to the congregation, and we are now going to put it in our tag sale. My minister would like to maximize the price, as this is going towards our capital campaign.

Is this still a new guitar? I am mainly concerned about the Yamaha warranty. It seems to me that if it no longer carries the warranty, we have to sell it as used but mint. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[rmp]

Wouldn't the warranty only be a question if it was registered?

has it been played? used at all? Sounds like probably not.

Perhaps to be up front, I would say disclose as "pre-owned with little or no usage" and your covered. As for "maximizing" return, a nice goal... But, this guitar is bought new for $299 from everywhere that sells them..

Advise to set expectations reasonably. I would think some where around $150/$175 would be a fair asking price. What are the expectations?

[RP]

Originally Posted by rmp

Wouldn't the warranty only be a question if it was registered?

I think that the store handles registration, and anything the customer does merely puts him/her onto a manufacturer's marketing data base.

Can you be more specific as to the arrangement between the shop and your church? I'd be curious as to how the shop "gifted" the guitar. Was it a charitable donation? Was it sold for a nominal amount, say $1? My gut feeling is that it would not be considered a new guitar with warranty at this point, but I could be wrong...

[619TF]

From Yamaha's own warrantee docs:

EXCLUSIONS
This warranty does not cover the following:
1. Failures that are the result of improper operations, maintenance
or repair.
2. Failures that result from abnormal strain, neglect, modification,
accidental damage or exposure to extremes in temperature or relative humidity.
3. Products purchased from dealers not authorized by Yamaha to
sell Yamaha Guitar Product.
4. Products whose trademark, name, or identification numbers
have been altered or removed.Guitars marked “by Yamaha” are
not covered by this warranty.
5. Failures traceable to repairs/modifications performed by any
one not authorized by Yamaha to perform such services.
6. Guitars no longer owned by the original purchaser.
7. Normal wear including strings, frets, finish, fingerboard,
accidental damage, and abuse.
8. Tone. Tone is based on the subjective perception of the listener.
This being the case, it cannot be guaranteed.

I think the biggest problem will be #3 but #6 seems to be the issue you're questioning. I would bet that #3 overrides the whole thing though.

[RalphH]

I consider a guitar as "new" until I donk in on something. My Hummingbird was 'new' for about 4 days >_<

In all seriousness, if the guitar has not been registered, and esp if you can get an invoice with the new owners name on it made out, I'd considder it new. It may be worth asking; go back to the shop it came from, explain the situation in detail and ask if they can write out a new invoice for the new owner; they may not (yet) have registered it with Yamaha.

Also, it's going local, not being sold on eBay to the other side of the world. Other option is to say to the new owner "look, it's brand new but the warranty is in the churches name. We'll act as middleman in the unlikely event you need to use the warranty". I'd be perfectly comfortable with that as the buyer if it was at my local church.

[rokdog49]

To me it lost the title descriptive “new” when it was purchased from the dealer.
The asking price is whatever the street price is for a used guitar of that type in mint or excellent condition.
With the exception that this is for charity, that’s all I would give for it.

[davidbeinct]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I'm trying to temper my ministers expectations. She thinks that the guitar, even if new, is worth more than the street price that I know it's worth. The guitar was donated outright from the shop, not sold, so that makes me think that maybe there could still be a warranty. Honestly, in most cases, what can go wrong with a maybe slightly above entry level Yamy? They've been doing this a while.

We're all a little shook up right now because our construction project is going to cost significantly more than what our capital campaign has raised, which makes little things like whether a $300 guitar is still worth that much seem much more important than they probably are in the long run. We have a lot of talented musicians at our church, maybe one of them will pay close to that for a beater. I played it, it's surprisingly nice. No matter how much my wife loves me and our church, she is not letting that thing come home. LOL

The guitar comes with a really nice Yamaha gig bag, I'm not sure if they do from the store, that might give us a little leeway to ask for more. Thoughts?

[rmp]

Originally Posted by RP

I think that the store handles registration, and anything the customer does merely puts him/her onto a manufacturer's marketing data base.

Maybe so, but as one who's been playing for over 50 years, bought countless "things" from music stores, including guitars no store or online merchant has ever registered anything I bought from them. the card is usually just left in with the case candy.

but, regardless, at the end of the day the warranty on a guitar isn't much of a selling point, not much can go wrong if it's cared for properly.

She thinks that the guitar, even if new, is worth more than the street price that I know it's worth

I understand, and there's probably no way she'd know..

but it is what it is. No harm in asking 300.. It's very likely someone would buy it, even knowing what it was worth in the spirit of Charity.

I had a similar engagement with a Catholic Priest who also happened to be a very close friend of ours, whom I've known since he was ordained 40 years ago. (He married us in fact, in 1977.. we're still together, and still friends with priest.. Whew!)

Anyways, he won a guitar on a radio call in contest, (be the 10th caller kind of thing)..

Not knowing anything about it, his first thought was to try and sell it, and put the money into the parish collections. his first hope was it was a guitar he could fetch 1,500~2,000 for.

He had me come over to the rectory and check it out.

It wasn't a Yamaha, (A washburn I think) similar street price. He was disappointed, but he decided give it to one of the people in the parish music program who'd recently fallen into hard times instead of trying to sell it on eBay.

Good luck with your capital projects, I know how hard it is to get funding for things like this.

[rokdog49]

Forgive me, I had to chuckle. In my nearly 70 years on this earth I have to say I haven’t met any Pastor/ Minister who was grounded in reality concerning a lot of things, especially money-related.
That being said, all you can do is give her your opinion based on your experiences as a musician and a consumer. If you did that, you’ve done enough. I wouldn’t try to “temper” anything. I understand your heart but this is business. If she decides to ask more, so be it. Not your problem anymore, take it from someone who has learned his own lessons the hard way.

[RP]

Originally Posted by RalphH

...Other option is to say to the new owner "look, it's brand new but the warranty is in the churches name. We'll act as middleman in the unlikely event you need to use the warranty". I'd be perfectly comfortable with that as the buyer if it was at my local church.

Sounds like fraud and a terrible idea. Best just to sell it as used in excellent condition with no warranty...

[Osage]

Unless you are an authorized Yamaha dealer selling the guitar as brand new, there is no longer a warrantee. The guitar you guys have is used. It might be in excellent condition but it is no longer new. It's like a new car. The minute you sign the papers and drive it off the lot, it is no longer new.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by 619TF

From Yamaha's own warrantee docs:

EXCLUSIONS
This warranty does not cover the following:
1. Failures that are the result of improper operations, maintenance
or repair.
2. Failures that result from abnormal strain, neglect, modification,
accidental damage or exposure to extremes in temperature or relative humidity.
3. Products purchased from dealers not authorized by Yamaha to
sell Yamaha Guitar Product.
4. Products whose trademark, name, or identification numbers
have been altered or removed.Guitars marked “by Yamaha” are
not covered by this warranty.
5. Failures traceable to repairs/modifications performed by any
one not authorized by Yamaha to perform such services.
6. Guitars no longer owned by the original purchaser.
7. Normal wear including strings, frets, finish, fingerboard,
accidental damage, and abuse.
8. Tone. Tone is based on the subjective perception of the listener.
This being the case, it cannot be guaranteed.

I think the biggest problem will be #3 but #6 seems to be the issue you're questioning. I would bet that #3 overrides the whole thing though.

The guitar was never purchased, is the interesting part:

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

My church has been gifted a Yamaha APX600 from a local guitar shop. It was originally used as a raffle gift at a pass the guitar event at church. The person who won it immediately gave it back to the congregation,

[RP]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

The guitar was never purchased, is the interesting part:

That's the reason I previously suggested finding out from the dealer exactly what procedure was used in the "gifting" process...

[RustyAxe]

A new guitar has never been sold at retail. Once it has, it's a used guitar, like new condition.

[Ralph124C41]

I don't know if this helps but my understanding is the warranty likely would not carry over. Why? Because I think it is no longer legally a "new" guitar. The ownership has changed. I say that because once I tried to sell a "new" guitar pedal to a local shop. I had gotten it as part of a rebate program for an amp I bought. I had no real use for the pedal and so it was still in its sealed box. The shop owner said that legally he had to consider it as a used item and so he would have to offer me the price of a used pedal. He was not an authorized seller for the product. I have dealt with the guy for about eight years and he deals in mainly mid-level to collectible guitars, both acoustics and electrics and I've always found him a fair person.

This doesn't add to any of the previous comments but I just wanted to point out that I tried to resell what I thought to be a "new" pedal but was told I could not resell it that way.

Btw ... I kept the pedal and I use it from time to time when I play (at) electric guitar.