When is a Guitar "New"?

[phavriluk]

I think as soon as the dealer handed over the guitar to the fundraiser group, it became used. Transfer of ownership. Dealer may have already told his accountant that the guitar was a gift to a church, time for whatever tax writeoffs are available to him. A tax accountant's opinion could stop all the chatter.

[Osage]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

I think as soon as the dealer handed over the guitar to the fundraiser group, it became used. Transfer of ownership. Dealer may have already told his accountant that the guitar was a gift to a church, time for whatever tax writeoffs are available to him. A tax accountant's opinion could stop all the chatter.

Of course the store has written it off. Almost certainly at full list price.

I don't see why there is even a question. Right in the Yamaha warrantee it says that there is no warrantee when:

3. "Products purchased from dealers not authorized by Yamaha to
sell Yamaha Guitar Product."

The church isn't an authorized Yamaha dealer and is selling the guitar. End of story.

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

I think as soon as the dealer handed over the guitar to the fundraiser group, it became used. Transfer of ownership. Dealer may have already told his accountant that the guitar was a gift to a church, time for whatever tax writeoffs are available to him. A tax accountant's opinion could stop all the chatter.

I deal in silent auctions all of the time. If we get an item donated to us from a dealer, it is considered new. So the donor bidding on and winning the item would be getting a new guitar. Now, if they turn around and sell it without registering it and the person who buys it registers it as the sole and first official owner, I would imagine that wouldn't cause too much of a stir. From a tax perspective, it may be a different kettle of fish.

Best,
Jayne

[RP]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I deal in silent auctions all of the time. If we get an item donated to us from a dealer, it is considered new. So the donor bidding on and winning the item would be getting a new guitar...

Best,
Jayne

Jayne, my question is if you've dealt with donated items that would have a warranty if purchased new from a dealer as well as the potential for warranty issues. I think that's really the issue. In the time this thread has run, hopefully the OP will have checked with the dealer to get the straight scoop.

My position remains that the church was the original owner and so any subsequent owner would not have access to warranty claims. Sell it for $150 or so as used and in excellent condition...

[Arthur Slowhand]

You were gifted the guitar. Yamaha's policy is clear. Just sell it as a 'used customer return' and be grateful for the money.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

My church has been gifted a Yamaha APX600 from a local guitar shop. It was originally used as a raffle gift at a pass the guitar event at church. The person who won it immediately gave it back to the congregation, and we are now going to put it in our tag sale. My minister would like to maximize the price, as this is going towards our capital campaign.

Is this still a new guitar?.....

No. It is not.

Originally Posted by rmp

Wouldn't the warranty only be a question if it was registered? ...

Only for someone unconcerned with truth and honesty.

Originally Posted by RalphH

....In all seriousness, if the guitar has not been registered, and esp if you can get an invoice with the new owners name on it made out, I'd considder it new. .

...WRONG.

Originally Posted by RP

Sounds like fraud and a terrible idea. Best just to sell it as used in excellent condition with no warranty...

This is the correct answer. Think unethical and fraud. No pastor is going to consider this once they know the warranty rules. Tell her.

If you want to sell a Yamaha guitar as new for profit - get a store to donate one and write it up for the new owner or have Yamaha donate one. These are the only 2 options.

[TBman]

I think once "title" gets transferred from the retailer to a customer, without regard to the payment arrangement (cash, credit, donation) its ability to be sold as "new" is over.

Whether its "like new", "excellent Condition", "unplayed" etc is up to the new owner's marketing.

Generally a warranty can't be transferred.

[CoffeeFan]

Originally Posted by RP

I think that the store handles registration, and anything the customer does merely puts him/her onto a manufacturer's marketing data base.

When I bought my Martin years ago, the dealer took care of the registration, but that's the only time I've had a dealer do that. Every other time, for every other guitar, I've done the registration of the guitar...

[RP]

Originally Posted by CoffeeFan

When I bought my Martin years ago, the dealer took care of the registration, but that's the only time I've had a dealer do that. Every other time, for every other guitar, I've done the registration of the guitar...

My frame of reference is Taylor guitars. Dealer registers the guitar's original purchaser, and the mail-in/online registration gets the original purchaser on Taylor's mailing list with a subscription to Wood & Steel. This may work differently for other manufacturers...

[Maryc-k]

From a tax accounting standpoint, the store donated the guitar to the church to raffle it off. The person who won it in the raffle must claim the guitar as income (the IRS uses retail book value, minus whatever the individual paid for the raffle tickets they purchased), and then can turn around in the year that they donated the guitar back to the church and claim it as a charitable contribution (under the IRS guidelines for charitable contributions). Please remember though there are special rules if the item is being donated with the intent that it will be resold. There are specific rules and steps for both the church and the donor to follow. I would consult your church's accounting professional as to what this process entails.

As for being sold new, if you follow the audit trail, by the time the guitar is sold at the church sale ownership will have changed hands more than once.

And yes, I am an accountant.

[ManyMartinMan]

In this case the guitar was given to the church. The church is the owner of the guitar once it has been transferred out of the control of the guitar shop who was, presumably, an authorized Yamaha dealer. If the dealer is willing to do a receipt for a new owner, stating they acquired it from the shop, it would be "new".

If the dealer won't, for any reason, in their records that serial number is owned by the church.

[Kitkatjoe]

Originally Posted by davidbeinct

My church has been gifted a Yamaha APX600 from a local guitar shop. It was originally used as a raffle gift at a pass the guitar event at church. The person who won it immediately gave it back to the congregation, and we are now going to put it in our tag sale. My minister would like to maximize the price, as this is going towards our capital campaign.

Is this still a new guitar? I am mainly concerned about the Yamaha warranty. It seems to me that if it no longer carries the warranty, we have to sell it as used but mint. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.

When is a guitar not new? When it’s been played by every Tom Dick and Harry in the shop but is still priced at new. Many shops also like to call a guitar new that’s been out for years. It becomes new old stock. When a guitar looks pristine like new than we can smile.🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧👋

[JDM88]

Good point, Kitkatjoe. What is considered "new" when a guitar is heavily demo'd before being sold? I don't see many (minimally) used guitars for sale at GC, yet it has a liberal return policy. If a guitar has been purchased, registered (with no initial intent to return it), but is then returned, is it then available for sale as used? NOS? Open box/case sale? Certainly should be, but since I haven't seen it, I wonder...

[nickv6]

"My minister would like to maximize the price, as this is going towards our capital campaign.
Is this still a new guitar? I am mainly concerned about the Yamaha warranty. It seems to me that if it no longer carries the warranty, we have to sell it as used but mint."
.........

Why not just advertise it truthfully as an unwanted prize, unused and donated immediately for resale?
Why make it so complicated?
Nick

[RP]

Originally Posted by nickv6

...Why not just advertise it truthfully as an unwanted prize, unused and donated immediately for resale?
Why make it so complicated?
Nick

That's an idea...............