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  #46  
Old 04-22-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevor B. View Post
This is an excellent instructional video. Kudos, Doug Young! I hope Barry doesn't feel "pummelled" by all the posts encouraging this approach but the video above makes it really obvious why this is the way to go.:
Using Doug's tutorial I was able to get my toes wet in multitrack processing.

When I realized that everything could be changed at whim and the eq trail was right in front of my face it was a huge moment. It was like seeing a color TV for the first time. (Us old guys know what that means )
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  #47  
Old 04-22-2019, 02:55 PM
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Glad this was helpful. It often just takes a demo to see the possibilities. For my first solo guitar CD, years ago, I used Audition and did everything in destructive mode.

Shortly after, I had a chance to record some stuff in a studio with El McMeen as a producer, using his regular recording engineer. I didn't end up with any keeper tracks, but what I saw the engineer do during editing and mixing was eye-opening, all the non-destructive editing, cross-fading - parts were flying everywhere. One thing that has really stuck with me, aside from just watching the general workflow, was a little trick El suggested in one part, a little arpeggio or something where the timing seemed to be off. Rather than redoing the take, or trying to edit, El asked the engineer to use volume automation to slightly lower the volume of the first note in the lick and ramp up the gain into the last note. Suddenly sounded great. A good lesson that timing, dynamics, phrasing, etc, are all interrelated, but also opened my eyes to what a more serious DAW with an experienced engineer can do.

That experience lead me to Logic eventually, which has some astonishing features - for example, I have another video on my channel on the "comping" feature in Logic, showing how to use that for a non-destructive, and very easy, way to edit multiple takes together. Audition doesn't support this, as far as I know, tho I think there are a few other DAWs that do something similar. Logic's "flex-time", where you can stretch and nudge notes to fix timing without (usually) hearing audible artifacts is another really cool feature of Logic. But Audition has plenty of great features, too.

BTW, in this demo, I loaded the M-S Bricasti sample, that's actually forces the input to mono, then produces stereo reverb. If I had instead, selected both the L and R impulses, the reverb would have been true stereo, which sounds slightly more spacious. I didn't realize I had that option until I tried it just now.

Another trick, if you are trying to tune into reverb is that you can click the pre-post button on the guitar track - right before the send level, to toggle whether the send is before or after the volume control. In "pre", you can mute the guitar track and easily hear just the reverb.
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  #48  
Old 04-22-2019, 04:50 PM
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For my first solo guitar CD, years ago, I used Audition and did everything in destructive mode.
That's impressive. If not for the ability to comp tracks, I'd have released nothing.
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  #49  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:09 PM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Doug Young's post raises a question that has been at the top of my "gotta figure this out" list for a while now. Here's a quote from his post, (#47).

"If I had instead, selected both the L and R impulses, the reverb would have been true stereo, which sounds slightly more spacious. I didn't realize I had that option until I tried it just now."

Fairly recently I loaded a bunch of Samplicity Bricasti M7 IRs into my Space Designer. Each IR comes in three flavours, M to S, L and R. I know what these designations are but how to apply the L (left) and R (right) to a stereo channel confuses me. Do I just set up two sends, each with an instance of the SD, one set to the chosen IR's L option and the other to the R?
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  #50  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:12 PM
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That's impressive. If not for the ability to comp tracks, I'd have released nothing.
Well, that was a long time ago, 2003, the state of "comping" was pretty primitive in most software, as far as I know. I didn't do much editing at all for that CD, because the tools I had were too basic. Multiple takes, till I got one I liked. Then maybe a small edit here or there. I used tape once upon a time, razor blades :-), so destructive editing in a digital audio editor wasn't that bad...

I think the software I saw being used in the studio was Sequioa, if I recall, and I looked at that, but it seemed convoluted at the time. Then Apple came out with Logic, and it seemed to do all the things I had observed, and things got much easier. But all software's evolved a lot since then, Audition's gotten much more advanced as have they all.
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  #51  
Old 04-22-2019, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor B. View Post
Doug Young's post raises a question that has been at the top of my "gotta figure this out" list for a while now. Here's a quote from his post, (#47).

"If I had instead, selected both the L and R impulses, the reverb would have been true stereo, which sounds slightly more spacious. I didn't realize I had that option until I tried it just now."

Fairly recently I loaded a bunch of Samplicity Bricasti M7 IRs into my Space Designer. Each IR comes in three flavours, M to S, L and R. I know what these designations are but how to apply the L (left) and R (right) to a stereo channel confuses me. Do I just set up two sends, each with an instance of the SD, one set to the chosen IR's L option and the other to the R?

In Audition's convolution verb, it let me multiple-select the L,R files, and you could hear the difference. However, Space Designer won't let me do that. I'm not sure if there's some way I'm missing - maybe. But you could mix the L,R impulses into a new stereo one as a separate step, and presumably load that into Space Designer. impulses are just wav files, so you could open them, pan them hard left and right and save the stereo mix as a new impulse.
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  #52  
Old 04-22-2019, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Well, that was a long time ago, 2003, the state of "comping" was pretty primitive in most software, as far as I know. I didn't do much editing at all for that CD, because the tools I had were too basic. Multiple takes, till I got one I liked. Then maybe a small edit here or there. I used tape once upon a time, razor blades :-), so destructive editing in a digital audio editor wasn't that bad...

I think the software I saw being used in the studio was Sequioa, if I recall, and I looked at that, but it seemed convoluted at the time. Then Apple came out with Logic, and it seemed to do all the things I had observed, and things got much easier. But all software's evolved a lot since then, Audition's gotten much more advanced as have they all.
I recorded a cd during 2000 in a small studio in someone's home. He had some version of Pro Tools and it did allow for comp tracks but they weren't easy to do. There were no quick and easy crossfades and every comp section required hand drawing to get rid of the pops. The pencil tool wasn't always cooperative and it was quite tedious. But it was also fascinating to me and eventually led me down a very expensive road.
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  #53  
Old 04-23-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I recorded a cd during 2000 in a small studio in someone's home. He had some version of Pro Tools and it did allow for comp tracks but they weren't easy to do. There were no quick and easy crossfades and every comp section required hand drawing to get rid of the pops. The pencil tool wasn't always cooperative and it was quite tedious. But it was also fascinating to me and eventually led me down a very expensive road.
That was most likely Pro Tools LE v. 5 ....... In the mid 90s and thru the early 2000s, Pro tools was one of, if not the most, advanced reliable , user friendly workflows and feature rich, "audio editing" softwares, and why it became ubiquitous in pro recording studios

Thru a quirk of destiny in late 2002 or maybe early 2003 I got the chance to record in very high end (we are talking cover of Mix Magazine) Post Production facility in midtown Manhattan running a TDM system , for free .
And yes fascinating and a bit overwhelming and led me into getting a Digi 002 in the summer of 2003 ( which was version 6 and as I understand it a pretty big step in increased audio editing and newer looking GUI .
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  #54  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:20 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Back to the first post -- that, to me, sounds like Lexicon or a profile of one. Not an 80 or 81, possibly a 91 but most likely a 480L. And there's at least one dry, stereo pingponging delay going on as well. Different, separate effect from the reverb. Sounds nice, in a New Age/ECM sort of way.
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  #55  
Old 04-23-2019, 08:47 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Audition

1.5 released May 2004, so almost exactly 15 years ago. From the wikipedia page, it looks like it did have some form of multi-track support. But the page says Adobe "entered the DAW market" with 2.0, whatever that means.
My memory cross-fades on this too. Audition was originally Cool Edit Pro, which was the first version I used way back when. I believe the 1.5 was the first version and it was essentially Cool Edit Pro re-branded after Adobe bought the product, which made 2.0 the first version they worked on "in-house."

Cool Edit also had a "lite" version that was shareware. I think that one was only stereo/destructive editing.

I was working in a broadcast network back then, with several newsrooms. Cool Edit had a substantial presence in that field in that era. It worked great for those purposes.

I too still use Audition 3.01 for some things. I wouldn't claim it's superior to anything out there, but it's a product I've used for a long time and I know how to do things with it that I need to do.
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  #56  
Old 04-23-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
That was most likely Pro Tools LE v. 5 ....... In the mid 90s and thru the early 2000s, Pro tools was one of, if not the most, advanced reliable , user friendly workflows and feature rich, "audio editing" softwares, and why it became ubiquitous in pro recording studios

Thru a quirk of destiny in late 2002 or maybe early 2003 I got the chance to record in very high end (we are talking cover of Mix Magazine) Post Production facility in midtown Manhattan running a TDM system , for free .
And yes fascinating and a bit overwhelming and led me into getting a Digi 002 in the summer of 2003 ( which was version 6 and as I understand it a pretty big step in increased audio editing and newer looking GUI .
I started with the Digi 001 and moved up to the Digi 003 when that came out. For the 003 before I even racked it I sent it off to Black Lion Audio to be modded. That unit stayed with me until Avid decoupled Pro Tools from the Avid hardware.
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  #57  
Old 04-23-2019, 11:17 AM
Trevor B. Trevor B. is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
In Audition's convolution verb, it let me multiple-select the L,R files, and you could hear the difference. However, Space Designer won't let me do that. I'm not sure if there's some way I'm missing - maybe. But you could mix the L,R impulses into a new stereo one as a separate step, and presumably load that into Space Designer. impulses are just wav files, so you could open them, pan them hard left and right and save the stereo mix as a new impulse.
Thanks! I'll try that.
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