Using Reverb Feature for Voice and Guitar

[napman]

Originally Posted by SeamusORiley

First of all: your voice is...well, wow! Your voice matches the beauty of the guitar playing.

I agree with Seamus, and may I add that your audio recording is so clean and clear. Makes me wonder how did you do it?

[Bob1131]

Originally Posted by SeamusORiley

First of all: your voice is...well, wow! Your voice matches the beauty of the guitar playing.

Secondly, the richness of the reverb is evident. This is a great sample for someone like me just learning.

Thank you for posting it for the sample, but thank you for posting it for enjoying of Time in a Bottle. It's a beautiful version.

Thank you, Seamus, you are very kind. Although I am almost 60, my voice cracked in the 3rd verse like it did when I was a teenager! I hope these tracks help you get some understanding of how reverb can affect the sound. I probably could have used a little more to create a dreamy effect and it might still have sounded okay, but there is a point where too much will muddy the sound, so I tend to use it conservatively.

Originally Posted by napman

I agree with Seamus, and may I add that your audio recording is so clean and clear. Makes me wonder how did you do it?

Thank you napman. As an "old guy," my recording process is somewhat old school. I used a pair of mic's on my guitar in a spaced arrangement (one at the neck-body joint and the other at the lower bout). The mic's are plugged into a Yamaha MG124c mixer which feeds into the "Line" input of a Boss BR864 recorder. All mixing and mastering is done on the recorder (I don't use a computer at all for recording).

I record in a finished room in my basement that has no sound treatments. The room is about 12 X15 with berber carpet and an 9.5 ft high wood plank ceiling. Because my house is very noisy (HVAC, fridge, etc.), I use super cardioid pattern dynamic mics (EV n/d767a) at about 8 inches from the guitar. The EVs are very good at rejecting off-axis sound, so I can set them up to minimize unwanted noise. I used a Rode NT1-A (large diaphragm condenser) for my vocal, but I had to turn off everything in the house to record because the Rode is capable of picking up an ant's breathing in the next room! Since it was 106F outside, I only had time for a couple of takes before the heat started to infiltrate the house...that's why I had to stay with my cracking voice in the third verse (I will probably re-record it this weekend).

I recorded the two guitar mics to tracks 1 and 2 panned left and right, respectively. My vocal was recorded in stereo to tracks 3 and 4. I mixed them all down to tracks 7&8 and then sent that through a mastering preset (light compression) to obtain the final WAV file for exporting to my computer. On the computer I burn the WAV file to a re-writable disk and then rip the disk to obtain an MP3 for web posting.

[napman]

Whoa!! Thanks a million Bob.
You really gave me a “Pot of gold” here!
Frankly I didn’t expect you to spend your precious time explaining what you normally do in your “Recording session”. But you did it for me ( should I say “For us” the green horns here?) Much appreciate from me for sure.

It’s interesting that even if I just started out on this “Recording” stuff I seemed to get in the proper direction considering what you’re doing. I’m an “Older man” at 65 and certainly another “Old school”, I don‘t feel like to do this stuff on my PC even if my previous day job before I retired was involved in computing all day and I was the Computer Learning Center of Los Angeles graduate since 1978. I also am using a pair of cheap Behringer C-2 that comes with its own Y mic holder. I pointed one at around 12th fret and the other at around the bottom of sound hole. I also plugged them in at the B XLR input of my Tascam DP-008 and used the adapter out for these 2 C-2 mics (DP-008 has only 2 XLR inputs while DP-02 has 3). So I don’t have the individual control for each of these 2 mics but I plan to switch over to use my other DP-02 for my next recording experiment so I can have a full control of each of these 2 mics. Also all mixing and mastering are done with this Tascam too (I embarrass to use those technical terms ‘cause I really am in learning process and don’t know what I’m doing!). BTW, I’m using MXL 4000 for my vocal and I also sometimes used the “Post Audio” device to blocked up the unwanted room noise too.

I’m doing my “Recording” in my “Bedroom Studio”. I don’t know much about “Room treatment” and I‘m frankly not too concern about it at least for now. I’m now concentrating on doing the best of what I have on hand right now (both of my guitar playing skill and getting to know the equipments that I’m using) and see if I can squeeze out the best of them first. May be when I gain more experience and understanding then I’ll tackle those matters later.

Again, I really do appreciate your “Input” for us. I’m sure it will help us tremendously in pursuing this hobby. Considering you’ve done it for so many years it encourages me that I can get better eventually if I stick to it and really pay attention to what I’m doing just like you did yours in so many years ago.

[Seanr]

Thanks for sharing Bob - great recording, bot voice and guitar sound great. Thanks for sharing your technique, that is something that is often not shared, it seems to me everyone says 'get this interface' or 'this mic is better than that mic' and of course 'your room needs treatment', you give all us newbies to recording some confidence to get started.
Cheers.

[SeamusORiley]

Originally Posted by rdm321

If you want to use effects on your vocal tracks, you can also try chorus and EQ. Both are available on GB. I experimented using GB's AU Graphic EQ, which has lots of bands to play with. It's a time-consuming process, but I eventually found the correct bands to reduce the nasal whine in my voice to tolerable levels.

Hence, my goal!

Thanks. I have had a MacBook Pro for almost 2 years now and am just starting to play with GarageBand.

I never knew.


Does GB make such things as a portastudio obsolete except for the portability?

It is encouraging to read the progress made by posters here. I am still at the "I can't believe I can play along with a rhythm track" stage of messing with the Tascam. Most of my recordings are with background TV noise, the dog barking or the kids talking, which, eventually, I will try to record when no one is home and get serious. I've got some vacation time this August which will be nice. Thanks again.

[rdm321]

Originally Posted by SeamusORiley

Does GB make such things as a portastudio obsolete except for the portability?

I think that it does.

I use GB on an older iMac, 17" screen. A few months ago I persuaded a couple of musical co-workers to help me with a recording project. I made the basic tracks (drum loops, bass, rhythm guitar, scratch vocal) at home, then recorded my friends in a storeroom at work over several lunch breaks. To get there, I loaded the iMac, microphone, cables, interface & headphones into a big cardboard box and took it on the subway. I sure could have used a portastudio for that project! There I was, holding my box, sandwiched between stockbrokers in a rush-hour subway car. "Hey, old-timer, you need a laptop!" said a suit. "Laptops are for wimps" I muttered.

[SeamusORiley]

Originally Posted by rdm321

I think that it does.

I use GB on an older iMac, 17" screen. A few months ago I persuaded a couple of musical co-workers to help me with a recording project. I made the basic tracks (drum loops, bass, rhythm guitar, scratch vocal) at home, then recorded my friends in a storeroom at work over several lunch breaks. To get there, I loaded the iMac, microphone, cables, interface & headphones into a big cardboard box and took it on the subway. I sure could have used a portastudio for that project! There I was, holding my box, sandwiched between stockbrokers in a rush-hour subway car. "Hey, old-timer, you need a laptop!" said a suit. "Laptops are for wimps" I muttered.

It would be great to hear how this came out! If you get the chance, can you post it?

The material from this thread is not just professional, but enjoyable.

[rdm321]

Originally Posted by SeamusORiley

It would be great to hear how this came out! If you get the chance, can you post it?

I posted a link to a couple of weeks ago, on the "Home Recording" thread, post #85.

[Bob1131]

Originally Posted by napman

....I’m doing my “Recording” in my “Bedroom Studio”. I don’t know much about “Room treatment” and I‘m frankly not too concern about it at least for now. I’m now concentrating on doing the best of what I have on hand right now (both of my guitar playing skill and getting to know the equipments that I’m using) and see if I can squeeze out the best of them first. May be when I gain more experience and understanding then I’ll tackle those matters later.

Again, I really do appreciate your “Input” for us. I’m sure it will help us tremendously in pursuing this hobby. Considering you’ve done it for so many years it encourages me that I can get better eventually if I stick to it and really pay attention to what I’m doing just like you did yours in so many years ago.

"Room treatments" are things like sound absorbing or sound diffusing panels on the walls and ceiling, and bass traps in corners to minimize room reflections that can cause wolf tones and muddiness in your recordings. If you clap your hands and hear a ringing sound, then your room needs to be toned down. There are many threads with links in the AGF "Record" section that explain how to build your own treatments at considerable savings over buying manufactured sound panels. But if you haven't the time or money, using close mic'ing techniques can help a lot to avoid room sound in your recordings.

I've only been home recording for about 10 years, but I didn't really strive to improve my sound until about 5 years ago. A lot of the techniques I use were learned from reading threads here on the AGF, and I am continuing to learn through experimentation every time I sit down for a recording session. That's what makes this hobby so enjoyable for me.

Originally Posted by Seanr

Thanks for sharing Bob - great recording, bot voice and guitar sound great. Thanks for sharing your technique, that is something that is often not shared, it seems to me everyone says 'get this interface' or 'this mic is better than that mic' and of course 'your room needs treatment', you give all us newbies to recording some confidence to get started.
Cheers.

Thank you, Seanr. I know that some of the "pros" who visit this forum cringe when they read my posts, but a home hobbyist and pro recording engineer can be two very different things depending on their goals. I don't aspire to be a pro recording engineer or operating a home commercial studio, rather my intent is to just have fun recording myself for friends and family. So, I'm not interested in spending thousands on mics and high-end gear. Half the fun for me is finding ways to make do with what I have and what I can afford. For example, I mic my guitar with two dynamic mics (EV n/d767a) instead of the recommended condenser mics because I find that the condensers are too sensitive for my home environment. The EVs are very good quality and are excellent for live performance situations, too. At about $100 each, they are a great value and pick up everything I want them to in a close mic'ing situation. If I were in a good sounding room and could move the mics away more, condensers would be needed to pick up transient tones that the dynamics couldn't at that distance. But close up, I don't think the dynamic miss much, at least not enough for me or my audience to notice.

When I use a condenser (Rode NT1-A), I put a foam chair cushion (egg carton pattern) behind it to reduce what it picks up from the sides and back. It might not be perfect, but there is a noticeable reduction in the room sound when I use the cushion. The cushion is 12 inches square and about two inches thick. I cut a slit from one edge to the center so I can slip it over the mic stand or mic fixture. I obtained the cushion for free from a broken office chair that was being thrown out.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought this might give someone some ideas for dealing with their improvised recorded space!

[SeamusORiley]

Originally Posted by rdm321

I posted a link to a couple of weeks ago, on the "Home Recording" thread, post #85.

got it!

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11666433

again! Thanks!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Bob1131

Here you go! This is a DRY demo and this is the same recording with REVERB.

The guitar was recorded with a spaced pair panned hard left and right, while the vocal was recorded center to a stereo channel. The reverb added is a "hall" type with a decay time of 2.4 sec at approximately 60% volume. I applied 10% to the guitar and 18% to the vocal (reverb to source mix). If my mix was successful, then you should notice the reverb on stops and loud swells, thus simulating a performance in a concert hall. A "room" reverb would have a shorter decay and a bigger concert venue might have a longer decay.

Pretty impressived demo of reverb. Which reverb company/brand are you using in this demo?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Bob1131

Here you go! This is a DRY demo and this is the same recording with REVERB.

I thought the dry version sounded much better and the wet one was way too wet. I should say I'm listening on headphones which make a reverb effect sound stronger.

A huge, in-your-face reverb kind of worked in Ty's clip. The chords ring out like thunder in the mountains, you know that line from Robinson Crusoe: "the first gun that had been fired there since the creation of the world".

However, I think, in your song, you need to come forward into a smaller, more intimate space with the listener. It's not the same kind of big, extravagant statement. All it needs is a tiny amount of lubrication.

The mic isn't helping. The NT1A is adding a bit more emphasis to your "esses", but mainly they're being amplified by the reverb. I don't know if you can hear how Ty's reverb doesn't pick up much of the highs from the guitar? Very often it's a good idea to narrow the bandwidth of the signal being passed through a reverb algorithm. I almost always low pass a signal somewere around 5k before hitting the reverb (and high pass too).

[Bob1131]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Pretty impressived demo of reverb. Which reverb company/brand are you using in this demo?

Hi, Rick. The reverb is the on-board reverb of the Boss BR864 recorder I use. It has only two modes, "room" and "hall" but allows control of tone, decay time, mix percent and effect volume. I've used a variety of reverb units from old fashioned spring units to echo-plex and Aleisis Mirco-verbs to Lexicon, and I think the Boss unit sounds comparatively pretty good for the money.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Bob1131

Hi, Rick. The reverb is the on-board reverb of the Boss BR864 recorder I use. It has only two modes, "room" and "hall" but allows control of tone, decay time, mix percent and effect volume. I've used a variety of reverb units from old fashioned spring units to echo-plex and Aleisis Mirco-verbs to Lexicon, and I think the Boss unit sounds comparatively pretty good for the money.

Thanks for the info Bob.

[Rick Shepherd]

Here is a recording with and without reverb:

This was recorded with a Taylor 814c, using a pair of Gefell M300's in XY config through an Avalon AD2022 pre, with UA 2192 AD/DA converter. Reverb used was a Lexi PCM-92.

Dry

Wet