Trussrod adjustment (fully tightened)

[picassov7]

I started playing I think 7 years ago and during that span have lived mostly in China. Given those circumstances I have taught myself to make adjustments to my guitars' setups on my own since reliable luthiers are not very common over here and there is little to no customer protection in businesses.

I received my custom ordered Froggy Bottom back in May of this year and immediately brought it over to China. Now considering the environmental differences in the two locations my guitar went through a transition period. After my guitar settled in there were some adjustments that needed to be made to the setup. It seemed to have a good bit of relief in the neck and a very high saddle. Initial 12th fret measurements were ~11/64 on the low E.

It has been a busy summer, but I finally got around to working on the setup of my guitar this morning. I checked the nut and it is fine. I adjusted the truss rod using my D string fretted on the 1st and 14th frets as a guide and made a significant adjustment in the relief. I then took down the saddle to get the 12th fret measurement at about 7/64 (might go just a tad more on the next string change).

Now my Frog plays much better, but I am curious about the relief adjustments I made. I was careful to not over tighten the truss rod as I know this can cause serious damage. It feels that I have fully tightened the rod and it can not go any further without risk of damage but there is still some relief in the neck. Is this common to have a neck with relief still existing in the neck even though the truss rod is in a fully tightened position? Could it be that the threads are binding and I could actually adjust further (don't worry I will not adjust it any further for risk of damaging the guitar. If further adjustment was needed it would go back to Michael)? In the past, my other guitars could actually have relief adjusted to allow for some back bow and subsequent fret buzz. Again, I am extremely happy with the setup now and am ready to get this long post over so I can go play it. This is my first custom guitar, so I am just curious if this is common in small shop builds.

[hopkinWFG]

not an expert here.. but have you consider to getta thicker set of string guage ? I maybe wrong but could some of the cases where harder neck wood was being used and resulted into a harder bow adjustment effect ? maybe consider a thicker set of strings will help on the bow effect then fine tune by adjusting truss rod ? sorry just my idea can I be wrong ? would like to know too as neck are less reactive to trussrod adjustment being having built by hardwood ?

[picassov7]

Thanks for the reply! I would think that a heavier gauge string would increase the tension and further exacerbate the bow in the neck though. Furthermore, I already play mediums or blue grass strings (.012-.056) so moving up would mean getting into heavy gauge strings and I don't think Michael Millard recommends this, even on a K, unless it has been built with this in mind (mine was not).

I appreciate the idea. I suppose that I could go with a lighter gauge string, but my ears and hands have just become accustomed to this size.

[hopkinWFG]

Hi no problem really... as I was thinking you could do upbow using heavier guage strings so you wont have to come under extreme in adjusting your bow effect... maybe thats what it supposed to be ? am not a luthier here... perhaps any luthier could chime in ? am wanna be learny on this too..

Originally Posted by picassov7

Thanks for the reply! I would think that a heavier gauge string would increase the tension and further exacerbate the bow in the neck though. Furthermore, I already play mediums or blue grass strings (.012-.056) so moving up would mean getting into heavy gauge strings and I don't think Michael Millard recommends this, even on a K, unless it has been built with this in mind (mine was not).

I appreciate the idea. I suppose that I could go with a lighter gauge string, but my ears and hands have just become accustomed to this size.

[charles Tauber]

Ni hao.

It is unusual for any guitar to run out of truss rod thread travel, though it does occasionally happen.

It could be that the force required to turn the nut is increased but it is not out of travel. If the nut is easily removed and replaced, you could try lubricating the threads with a very small amount of oil or dry lubricant. You can also try tightening it further with no string tension on it to resist turning the nut. That should make it easier to turn.

If you really have run out of threads, which seems unlikely, if the nut is easily removed, and replaced, you could put a washer or two between the nut and whatever the nut turns against. This would effectively provide you with a little more thread.

Before going too crazy, it would make sense to contact the maker, who is intimately familiar with the design and it's behaviour.

[jonfields45]

A 2-way truss rod can be fairly hard to turn as it is straight and requires a higher tension to achieve the same effect as a curved single action truss rod. It could be this is normal for that guitar. I would definitely contact the builder before taking any further action. Jon

[picassov7]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Ni hao.

It is unusual for any guitar to run out of truss rod thread travel, though it does occasionally happen.

It could be that the force required to turn the nut is increased but it is not out of travel. If the nut is easily removed and replaced, you could try lubricating the threads with a very small amount of oil or dry lubricant. You can also try tightening it further with no string tension on it to resist turning the nut. That should make it easier to turn.

If you really have run out of threads, which seems unlikely, if the nut is easily removed, and replaced, you could put a washer or two between the nut and whatever the nut turns against. This would effectively provide you with a little more thread.

Before going too crazy, it would make sense to contact the maker, who is intimately familiar with the design and it's behaviour.

Xiexie for the reply Charles. Both great ideas that I will keep in my back pocket if the need arises.

Originally Posted by jonfields45

A 2-way truss rod can be fairly hard to turn as it is straight and requires a higher tension to achieve the same effect as a curved single action truss rod. It could be this is normal for that guitar. I would definitely contact the builder before taking an further action. Jon

Jon, that makes sense. Furthermore, Michael really tucks his truss rods up right on the underside of the guitar top and right behind a top brace. I contacted him about the tool to make adjustments and found that I had to go get a short 5/16 crescent and then cut it in half Needless to say, this make the handle quite short; not allowing a lot of leverage. Thanks for the input.