recording first record?

Imperfectly · #1 10-13-2002, 09:47 AM

i would like to hear many different opinions on the equipment necessary to record my first album. i am very ignorant as far as the mechanical side of music goes. all those knobs and mics and computers? i know it is posssible to buy studio time but i would like to try produce myself. keeping in mind these factors:

-i want a professional sound, no scruffy demo sound.
-i want multi-layered arrangments, to be able to record two guitar parts and add my voice over.
-i want to encorporate some type of percussion, drums or sampling.
-i want to be able to send out an extremely professional and creative product to the labels of my choosing.

-i have a seagull with a baggs pickup and a k14c with an installed pickup.
-i have 3,000 dollars.
-i have original music.

i would like to know about specific models of equipment and their benefits. what is a dat machine? what are typical prices for the gear needed? how difficult do you think this will be? thanks for any knowledge and experience.

~j~ · #2 10-13-2002, 10:53 AM

DAT means digital audio tape.. it means you can have a real-time recording that has digital quality but resides on magnetic tape... I prefer using my computer. I have a creative labs soundblaster audigy platinum soundcard that was $200 on their website, and it has every type of input imaginable. This is the cleanest, most straightforward way to record EVER, you know how people talk about digital being like a "fragile" sound? not so here, it's nice and it works well I have already tried it w/ both my acoustic and my electric. with the rest of your money, you can buy a small digital mixer like the Roland vs-880 digital workstation, these are a bit old I know there's a newer model that's better because display is larger, easier to use, etc. that's about 1500$. Then all you need is software for your computer to master the stuff you throw into it either straight from the mixer or from the soundcard... to go into the soundcard I use the digital coaxial output on my Boss GT-6, which you can use even for an acoustic because it has even just simple amp modeling w/out effects.. there are I think about 40 amp modeling setups and they're very, very true to form... this gives you a lot of versatility in recording guitar sounds.

for mastering software I would reccoment cakewalk I guess, it's not too expensive. that's all I your price range I think...

it won't be hard if you're familiar with computers and software, or with mixers at all... all mastering software is designed around the physical mixers and stuff anyways so it's more intuitive. The idea is they know people won't buy it if they won't be able to use it so they try to make it easy to use.

the hardest to use piece of equipment i mentioned here is the Roland digital workstation, but you can do all you need to without it (it's also the most expensive thing I mentioned!)

good luck to ya

RDuke · #3 10-13-2002, 01:07 PM

Choices abound for digital. I chose a dedicated device solution in the Tascam 788 Portastudio a year or so ago. Has eight 24-bit channels, 250 virtual tracks (swapable with each channel), non-destructive editing, 999 undo levels, exports/imports WAV files (v2.x), auto-punch, midi-support, shelf EQ, many good effects...preset and user-def, up to 70gb hard drive support (v2.x), mulitple partitions, premasters, burns to it's own Tascam external SCSI CD (got to be a Tascam, though). Last but not least, it has a great User Forum, which I invite you to check out. Manufacturers of comparable units don't provide such a service. Typically, you just use the manuals as reference and get most of your how-to questions answered in the forum.

No matter what you do, you should get decent condensor mic or two. I use a Akg c1000s and a Rode NT1. Also a preamp (with phantom power) for you mics. Also good headphones and decent monitoring system. In all, a modest studio could run you around $2k.

Hope this helps.

Rick

Anj · #4 10-13-2002, 05:51 PM

"You have your whole life to write/record your first album,

and four months to get your next one out."
--Jason Wade, Lead singer, guitarist, and lyricist for
Lifehouse.

sounds right to me.

but what do I know?

After recording 1 song for the christmas cd, I learned
that:
ya gotta be patient
ya gotta know what you're doing
ya gotta know what ya want. (specifics, ie more\less reverb, et al)
my half cent.

anj

Bob Womack · #5 10-14-2002, 07:22 AM

You've got some things to think about:

1. Gear. To get a pro sound you need at least semi-pro gear. Taste is also a factor. For instance, you need to discover whether you like the sound of large-diaphragm or small-diaphagm condensers before you buy. From your description, you look like you'll need at least sixteen tracks.

2. Skills: Believe it or not, there's a reason why professionals use professionals to record their albums. If you have some aptitude, you can fake it if you either study some books* or take a recording course (better choice) such as the RIAA course.

3. Methodology: You can do the whole thing via a computer, but it restricts the final options you have. Some options:

a. Record on computer and have a professional master your product in order to take care of any deficiencies in your gear or technique.

b. Record on a work station and take the product in to be mixed by a professional. A professional mix can really help your final product. Some pro engineers, such as Bob Clearmountain, have made their entire career out of mixing songs for others.

c. Record it entirely in a studio. There are package deals out there, some in your range. You'd need to get your ducks in a row before you go into the studio.

*Here are some good book sources I use in recording course I have taught:

"How to Make & Sell Your Own Recording : The Complete Guide to Independent Recording"
by Diane Sward Rapaport, preface by Loreena McKennitt
5th edition (July 1999); Prentice Hall; ISBN: 0139239472
Paperback - 256 pages

READ THIS ONE! It takes your project from the beginning (marketing) to recording to mastering to fabrication to distribution. It can help you save money and cut through the bull.

********

"Modern Recording Techniques" by Huber and Runstein
Sams Publishing, a division of Prentice Hall Computer Publishing;
ISBN: 0-672-22682-0
Paperback - 373 pages

The classic technical text on recording. I use this as the basis of the courses I teach. VERY TECHNICAL. Used in RIAA courses for years.

*******

Check out my site (listed in my signature) for hints and poop.

Bob

Imperfectly · #6 10-14-2002, 08:28 AM

absolutly the information i need and need to learn more about.

j-how much info (music) does a soundcard like that hold? and when you say you prefer to use your computer, do you mean the computer you are using to reply?

rduke-about how much would a tascam run? is it used along with your personal computer or is it a seperate entity?

anj-i thought jon bon jovi said that? hehe.

bob-how would you describe the sound difference between large and small diaphragm condensers? sixteen tracks as in sixteen songs? i certainly acknowledge that professionals are better suited for this task, but i figure why not try to teach myself now and besides i am a perfectionist. what is mastering specifically? what is mixing specifically? a friend of mine pays $35/hr for studio time, is that typical?

i am definitly going to read the books and websites suggested. thanks you all very much for your help.

jam · #7 10-14-2002, 09:03 AM

Imperfectly,
Musician's Friend has the Tascam 788 with the CD writer for about $1000. Mickeyt has one this same setup for sale in the General Marketplace section for a whole lot less! You might want to check that out. I have this unit and find it extremely simple (I consider myself in the same boat as you with regard to the "mechanical side" of music).

--jam

~j~ · #8 10-14-2002, 12:14 PM

the soundcard actually doesn't "hold" any information. it is the go-between for your music equipment and the computer itself.

it turns the signals coming into any of its inputs into a usable sound format for the computer. this is usually a .WAV file, but depending on the software you use to record it this can differ. The files on a typical auido cd are called .CDA file for CD audio--when you burn a disc your computer will almost always do this kind of conversion for you....

sorry back to the point. how much your comptuer can "hold" is based on your hard drive. if you get a computer in the current marketplace you shold have between 40 and 120 gigabytes of storage. I have 60 gb on my computer, which is a colossal amout of live recording time. I only do it one thing at a time, which means I don't use a mixer or multiple devices or instruments into the soundcard at one time. I go into just the one digital input out of my effects processor, and record it using the software that came with the soundcard. I think it samples at around 75 kHz, so a 3-minute guitar track(that's stereo) is I think like 10 or 15 megabytes. I have used lots of other space on the computer but I have abt. 40 gigabytes of just play room, so that's I think like 500 3-minute guitar tracks. The computer came w/ a burner so if it gets over-full I can dump the .WAV files or the entire ACID project onto a CD...

if U have more computer related questions just shoot I'll prob be able to help

mastering means you have all the components of your final mix all together, and you want to make the final blend of all the ingredients. This is also a time to see how each track or set of tracks lie together... you have this time to adjust eq on individual tracks, or to change the ambience of a combination of tracks. for instance, if you recorded your guitars and vocals very "wet" or with lots of reverb or effects, but you have very "dry" drum tracks, your mastering will allow you to make a better blend of the sounds so it is more natural..

mixing is just what you do at any stage where you are combinng tracks, you want to mix them together by balancing volumes and all that other stuff.

I don't know what studio times usually run at but you pay for what you get... I've also heard 10 hours of studio time for every one minute of recorded final stuff...

peace

Bob Womack · #9 10-14-2002, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperfectly
bob-how would you describe the sound difference between large and small diaphragm condensers? sixteen tracks as in sixteen songs? i certainly acknowledge that professionals are better suited for this task, but i figure why not try to teach myself now and besides i am a perfectionist. what is mastering specifically? what is mixing specifically? a friend of mine pays $35/hr for studio time, is that typical?

Large Dia. condensers have an "open", smooth, wide-bandwidth sound. Small Dia. Condensers have a less open sound but often have more "sparkle" on the high-end.

Sixteen tracks refers to the number of sources recorded simultaneously. You'll use a pair of tracks for each stereo source.

Mixing is the process of combining however many tracks you have together at appropriate levels while setting the spacial relationships and adding effects to create a stereo (or whatever format) product.

Mastering is the process of setting the final EQ and dynamic character of the product, finalizing the transitions, and formatting the information to create a master for the replication process.

Rooms can go from $35-ish an hour to $250-ish, including an engineer. The difference is in the quality of the recording and monitoring environments and equipment, and in the experience and prestige of the engineer. At the high-end, you hire a freelance engineer and he contracts the room, which comes with a house second engineer.

The beauty of the current atmosphere in the recording industry is that you can integrate a professional and a professional facility at several different locations to increase the quality wherever you choose. The "How to Make and sell..." book covers this well.

Bob

RDuke · #10 10-14-2002, 04:48 PM

Imperfectly, the Tascam 788 is a digital recorder/mixer. It's like a computer geared specifically for audio production, and I promise you, with the right mics and a little experience you can produce a professional quality recording right on CD. You don't use it with a computer...it is a computer. If you want, you can still offload the tracks from it as WAV files for use with audio software products on your computer. Some folks do this to further refine their sound; it's just a matter a taste in production. I haven't looked at the street price in a while, but the 788 and CDRW 788 (it's companion exteral CD burner/drive) should cost about $1k new.

Other manufacturers like Boss, Korg, Yamaha have similar offerings in digital recorders, but the 788 is the best in its class, IMO. See my linked page for recordings done 100% on the 788.

I'd recommend you get both a large and a small diaphram condensor mics, a two-channel preamp, good headphones, and a monitoring system. There's a lot price range among this associated gear. Depends upon what you can afford.

Rick