Universities and Colleges Suck...How They Fell and Can They be Saved?

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

Posting what I truly feel is wrong with higher education in America would get me permanently banned from the AGF.

Go for it, Wadcutter. I'll hold your beer.

[islandguitar]

Originally Posted by valleyguy

I don't think it is political. College loans, and the ease of getting them, has eliminated the need for colleges to control costs, so they continue to increase costs and tuitions with no incentive to stop the increases, just pass it on to students. Make colleges responsible for the loans and collecting them, that's about all I can think of to put a stop to this.

Thanks Fred! I have squared off with boards of trustees on this.....asking why, if they hold admissions offices accountable for SAT profiles and other statistical entrance standards upon students entering the college, do they not hold the college itself accountable for certain exit standards including overall lowering and or control of student indebtedness. The result......blank stares with admitting, that 'they never really thought about that".! Sad!!
Fred (another Fred!)

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy

I grew up in the South, and I still live here. I have a BS, an MA, and an EDS, all in education, and I currently work at a community college. ...... the idea of sending my kids off to college and paying tens of thousands of dollars a year so they can have the experience of living in a nice place with a pool and hot tub is ludicrous. People graduating with $80,000+ in debt with a 4-year degree in a rubbish major should be a crime, but it happens every day.

c. College isn't for everyone. I mean that.

First I don't know where you went to college but between my wife, myself and my daughter (all have at least a masters degree), I've never seen a "nice place with a pool and hot tub." at a college dorm. How about an 8x12 room or sharing with 2-4 others in a 2-br. college dorm.

Secondly, anyone who is complaining about the cost (which I agree is too high)- and creating huge college debt is either prepared to pay back the debt because it was fully explained prior to them enrolling OR they can do like I did and work 40-50 hours a week throughout college and grad-school. I graduated with no college debt because of the work-load I held off-campus. If people can't afford to go to "that" school, they need to choose another. No one made college mandatory.

[Davis Webb]

Interesting replies, it gives me some views outside of the ivory walls.

[ChalkLitIScream]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

First I don't know where you went to college but between my wife, myself and my daughter (all have at least a masters degree), I've never seen a "nice place with a pool and hot tub." at a college dorm. How about an 8x12 room or sharing with 2-4 others in a 2-br. college dorm.

Up here in Canada, at established universities we are paying about 7-8k for tuiton, plus anywhere from 4-10k for 8 months of residence.
I ended up paying 9k for a 6x12 room. It did not have air conditioning.

As others have mentioned, universities are now seen as a mandatory step to get a job.

[Mandobart]

Just some more observations from my experience:

1. Skilled trades (electricians, welders, mechanics, instrument and control systems techs) start at $35/hr at my plant, plus full benefits, plus premium overtime pay. They all are making over $100k/year. They typically spend two years at trade school then serve an apprenticeship, during which they are paid.

2. Some professions which require a college degree will never make that.

3. A 4- year college degree in America will cost at least $100k (without grants/scholarships).

4. High school guidance counselors insist on telling students that they must go to college.

[Davis Webb]

I have seen some things in my career that question the whole thing.

1. A complete program overhaul costing $250K which was reversed within 2 years because they "felt better about the old way".

2. A complete cancellation of all programs in holistic medicine at a Canadian College due to a golf course "conversation" between the college president and the head of the medical association (after being approved by all faculty leads, the senate and a sub committee of the senate)....

3. A post doctoral student ejected for whistle blowing on her employers who were falsifying data, she left with no paper, no references ,,,it was 11 staff and a lawyer vs a 24 year old PhD....

I could list more of these. Things in higher education are not just broken, they are downright dirty at times. I do hold them to a higher standard.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

First I don't know where you went to college but between my wife, myself and my daughter (all have at least a masters degree), I've never seen a "nice place with a pool and hot tub." at a college dorm. How about an 8x12 room or sharing with 2-4 others in a 2-br. college dorm.

I spent my years from 17 to 26 in the USN, on submarines. Three guys share two racks (6' long by 2' wide bunk, piled three high. Not enough headroom to even roll over). I felt so sorry for my kids in their college dorms....

[DenverSteve]

It's probably good to remember that college/university is not just about a job. Getting outside your town, city, region... away from the comfort of having mommy &/or daddy tell you what is what and do everything for you so you can learn about interpersonal interactions, education, learning about things you otherwise wouldn't choose, learn to speak about new things to people you wouldn't otherwise address in public.

Learning to debate and discuss uncomfortable issues in a safe environment. That's just some of what learning to make your own decisions, think outside the box, learn to read, write and converse can do. College has a great deal to offer those willing to take the time and put in the effort to do so. Combine all that with greater learning, personal development and learning about many different life aspects, to include living with individuals you don't choose or might not otherwise meet all makes for a life-expanding experience. Also, a little learning about money management isn't a bad idea either.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

It's probably good to remember that college/university is not just about a job. Getting outside your town, city, region... away from the comfort of having mommy &/or daddy tell you what is what and do everything for you so you can learn about interpersonal interactions, education, learning about things you otherwise wouldn't choose, learn to speak about new things to people you wouldn't otherwise address in public.

Learning to debate and discuss uncomfortable issues in a safe environment. That's just some of what learning to make your own decisions, think outside the box, learn to read, write and converse can do. College has a great deal to offer those willing to take the time and put in the effort to do so. Combine all that with greater learning, personal development and learning about many different life aspects, to include living with individuals you don't choose or might not otherwise meet all makes for a life-expanding experience. Also, a little learning about money management isn't a bad idea either.

One of the problems, however, is that these things are gone.

With social media, facetime, texting, etc. kids away at school have exactly the same amount of social interaction with their families and friend groups. So that "flying solo" thing doesn;t work anymore.

As for debating in a safe place, that's not as welcome everywhere.

[DenverSteve]

Sorry but that's just too broad a brush to paint with. I have spent a bit of time over the past decade on and around college campuses and that's certainly not universally true.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Sorry but that's just too broad a brush to paint with. I have spent a bit of time over the past decade on and around college campuses and that's certainly not universally true.

Yeah I agree with you, so I edited my statement

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

It's probably good to remember that college/university is not just about a job. Getting outside your town, city, region... away from the comfort of having mommy &/or daddy tell you what is what and do everything for you so you can learn about interpersonal interactions, education, learning about things you otherwise wouldn't choose, learn to speak about new things to people you wouldn't otherwise address in public.

Learning to debate and discuss uncomfortable issues in a safe environment. That's just some of what learning to make your own decisions, think outside the box, learn to read, write and converse can do. College has a great deal to offer those willing to take the time and put in the effort to do so. Combine all that with greater learning, personal development and learning about many different life aspects, to include living with individuals you don't choose or might not otherwise meet all makes for a life-expanding experience. Also, a little learning about money management isn't a bad idea either.

You mean learn how to do all those things in a cloistered unrealistic misrepresentation of the real world only to find once outside things are considerably different.
You get a better and more realistic life-expanding experience with all those things in the Armed Forces and they pay you.

[BrunoBlack]

Absolute and uniform expressions for an entire social sector are not very meaningful or useful. Higher education is so variable between institutions it is inaccurate and fairly useless to summarize the entire sector as a success or failure. The students, families of students, pre-college experience of students shape the higher education experience of the students - just as do the wide range of faculty, staff, and administrators. Budgets, resources and cultures have a significant impact on all this too. Consider just 2 bits of data. 91% of the students who attend Amherst College graduate in 4 years. Only 31% of the students who attend Liberty College and Missouri State University graduate in 4 years. For whatever reasons, do you think the college experience is the same at those 3 institutions? The 4-year graduation rates for hundreds of Colleges and Universities I’ve seen on a recent listing extends from 92% - 1%. Many other aspects of higher education are just as striking as is the variability found in graduation rates. So it’s pretty difficult to cast a singular evaluation for an entire system.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

You mean learn how to do all those things in a cloistered unrealistic misrepresentation of the real world only to find once outside things are considerably different.
You get a better and more realistic life-expanding experience with all those things in the Armed Forces and they pay you.

That’s an opinion, and you should do that (or have done that) if given the choice. Of course you can do both as my father did or you can pay your own way like I did, neither of which I’d call cloistered.

College isn’t a representation of “the real world” or a misrepresentation of it. Nor is the military. It’s a place to learn, which happens one’s entire life if one is wise enough to avail himself of the opportunity.

I’m of the opinion work, trade school, the military, and colllege are all great choices. Only one of those things prepped me for a life of art and a career in technology.

The problems in this country certainly don’t stem from too many people getting advanced degrees and too many people being trained in critical thinking. To put it mildly.