As a solo performer, do you really need a mixer?

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

I guess I get frustrated with what I’m seeing as hyperbole

I don't see what I'm saying as hyperbole. It's my experience.

I get the want for simplicity,

I'm not sure how much you get that some people REALLY want it.

I offered to put a small, simple mixer in front of one of my friend's Bose L1 Compact at an upcoming gig of hers (which was going to be in a place I know well, and where she's played before). It's the place I mention above (brick walls, etc). I told her I could almost certainly fix a few issues I knew about there, and I would be able to control everything from my seat, so there'd be no running back and forth to try different things to fix it "on the fly". These places are never really set up for a real sound check . . it's pretty much a simple sound check and GO.

I asked her well in advance (at another gig) because I didn't want to put her on the spot.

Her response was that she appreciated the offer (she almost always asks for "my ears" on making sure her vocal/guitar mix and overall volume sounds good out in the room), but that she's "a bundle of nerves" (my words, not her exact words) before she performs, and she just wants to plug in and play.

She loves that system. It's easy for her to carry and set up. She bought it for a specific gig (I wasn't there) that was paying enough that it covered the cost of it.

Now that I think about it, I think I had probably told her she should consider this system maybe 6 months to a year before. No idea if she even remembers that or if that's why she made the decision.

[Akousticplyr]

"As a solo performer, do you really need a mixer?"

Yes.

[guitarwebguy]

Wow - quite a bit of passion in this thread! I’ll hearten back to your original request. I play solo about 50% of the time. I sing and play a variety of instruments through my Grace Design Felix and into my LR Baggs Acoustic Reference amp. The amp has a useful selection of EQ controls which I set flat and do all my EQ through the Felix. This is my setup for solo gigs. Works great. The amp provides more than enough (has great dispersion) output for small venues and medium sized bars. If I’m playing as a band member, one of the other band members brings his much larger sound system (and mixer). My key to success is knowing what I like my instruments and vocals to sound like before I go play somewhere and then worrying more about amp placement and master volume to get my vocals and music to the audience. When playing solo, I could spend a lot of time worrying about how the space may affect things, but the reality is I can’t change the space. What I can do (as a solo performer) is make sure the sound coming out of the amp is the my sound. I’ve played places where the space is acoustically awful and afterwards the owner complains about the “my sound”, if it’s after hours I’ll ask him to pull up a chair in the middle of the room and listen to me play, generally after a few minutes, the owner realizes that it was not me but the room, other times, I’ve politely said thanks and have never been back. I can’t change what a patron hears if he/she is sitting in a back corner with a column in the way nor can I compete with a loud vocal crowd (by upping the volume). If other folks want to come and join me, that’s great but again, my solo rig is for me. I’m not bring gear so that they can.play with me as well. This is just my view and it works for me.

[JackB1]

Keep doing what you're doing "Kid". You are a HUGE asset to this forun and I have learned so much about sound reading your posts. Don't worry about ruffling a few feathers along the way. Like you said, you can't control how folks receive your advice...thats up to them. Just keep on giving it

Originally Posted by The Kid!

Perhaps at times. I can appreciate that. I guess I get frustrated with what I’m seeing as hyperbole and maybe it triggers me a bit. Mainly because I feel like learning about such things is important.

People come here for advice. I give advice. I can’t be responsible for how people receive or process information, but I’ll try to take it down a notch for the greater good. I’ll try to deliver solid advice without the stank on it. You should actually see what I DON’T post.

[lkingston]

Just a couple of points.

I love speaker column mini line arrays (Bose, Fishman 220/330, etc.) For seated audiences, but you lose all the highs when you have a standing crowd. In that case, a couple of horn loaded traditional PA speakers on stands well above people's heads is better.

Two or more channels on an acoustic amp actually is a mixer. It certainly is enough of a mixer for a singing guitarist.

A couple of years ago I felt like I needed pretty full-featured EQ to get the vocal and guitar sound I craved. Then I realized that that was related to the mic and pickup I was using. By switching to a pickup system that was more well-balanced to begin with and a mic that was a better match to my voice, I am now quite happy with a simple two or three band EQ, and even run that mostly flat. For me that was a Schertler AG-6/S-Mic pickup and an Audix OM-5 mic, but work other singing voices and playing styles I would expect it to be different.

A good pickup and mic which suits your voice can make using a house PA a pleasure rather than a nightmare.

Hyper-cardiod mics and placing speakers slightly to the side can make a "vocals and guitar amp behind you" approach feedback free, even at loud gig levels.

Not everyone in the house needs to hear you at full volume. People who sit far away from the stage want to talk and hear you at background levels. People who sit near the stage are there to hear the music. It's ok if the levels drop off at the back of the house. Often in fact it is better.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

Believe it or not, a lot of musicians focus on the MUSIC and just don't know much at all about running sound.

Believe it or not, 'the MUSIC' and 'running sound' are NOT mutually exclusive. Why do so many insist on perpetuating this false dichotomy?

We humans are pretty lazy much of the time. It takes FAR less effort to become competent on running sound than to become competent on an instrument. Yet so many musicians resist spending ANY time at all on learning basic PA techniques.

It's sad to see so much self-limitation, and the losers are everyone - the musician who isn't getting their sound across consistently, and the audience who are missing out on the musical message because the sound gets in the way.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

Believe it or not, a lot of musicians focus on the MUSIC and just don't know much at all about running sound.

I can't cosign that. Why focus on the music, but not focus on making it sound great? It's laziness, IMO. A lot of patrons will leave a venue due to bad sound, wether they realize it or not. Ear fatigue is a real thing. If you have a pleasant mix, you can actually be louder than if you have a mix that's not pleasing. "Too loud," often means "too loud in the wrong frequencies."

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I've never heard anybody (yet) try to use one where it was underpowered.

Hmmmmm, I've seen it many times. Maybe the gigging terrain is different where you are. It's certainly possible. Maybe that's why we have a disconnect.

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

But I prefer "ok" to "not ok" any day of the week.
.

You also seem to prefer, "ok" to "great," as well.

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

It's simply not the same skill set. Some musicians can do it well, some just "ok", and some "not so ok".

It doesn't have to be that way though. Learning the basics of mixing isn't exactly rocket science or advanced particle theory. It's certainly an attainable skill set that will make one's shows better and create a better listening environment for the audience.

It should be part of that skill set. If you delivered for UPS, you'd have to know how to unload boxes and deliver them to the door. You'd also need to know how to drive the truck. Think of driving the truck as the mixing aspect.

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

There's also the issue of hearing your MONITOR fine, but not FOH..

As I've stated, the mains can be set off-axis behind the performers much like the column arrays are designed to do. You can eliminate feedback by speaker placement, playing at moderate volumes, and understanding how to EQ for the room.

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

And some of these rooms are a sound guy's nightmare. Concrete floors, brick walls, large glass doors immediately behind the stage, etc.

It's not a nightmare if you have a decent desk and know what you're doing.


Listen man, at this point I'm going to stop going back and forth with you about all this. If YOU are happy with YOUR sound, then I'm thrilled for you. I'm sure it sounds fine, and if you're getting re-booked, all is well.

However, saying that most people with Bose gear are almost never too loud, and most people with conventional gear are almost always too loud, is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. Both systems have a volume knob, and neither defy the laws of physics.

Be well, my brother and have some great gigs!

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Believe it or not, 'the MUSIC' and 'running sound' are NOT mutually exclusive. Why do so many insist on perpetuating this false dichotomy?

We humans are pretty lazy much of the time. It takes FAR less effort to become competent on running sound than to become competent on an instrument. Yet so many musicians resist spending ANY time at all on learning basic PA techniques.

It's sad to see so much self-limitation, and the losers are everyone - the musician who isn't getting their sound across consistently, and the audience who are missing out on the musical message because the sound gets in the way.

[IMG][/IMG]

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Not everyone in the house needs to hear you at full volume. People who sit far away from the stage want to talk and hear you at background levels. People who sit near the stage are there to hear the music. It's ok if the levels drop off at the back of the house. Often in fact it is better.

I forgot to mention this as well. 180 degrees of spread isn't always optimal. I often point speakers away from the bar so that they can hear drink orders. Being able to put the speaker where it makes the most sense to create the best sonic landscape is paramount.

Being able to tweak your sound without having to be tethered to a unit is optimal. IMO, live sound situations are rarely ever "set it and forget it," even with just a vocal and guitar. As the amount of people in a room change, so does your sound.

Speaker placement and appropriate volume are key in restaurant / bar situations. I keep that in mind wether I'm hired to play or if I'm hired to run sound.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

I forgot to mention this as well. 180 degrees of spread isn't always optimal. I often point speakers away from the bar so that they can hear drink orders. Being able to put the speaker where it makes the most sense to create the best sonic landscape is paramount.

Being able to tweak your sound without having to be tethered to a unit is optimal. IMO, live sound situations are rarely ever "set it and forget it," even with just a vocal and guitar. As the amount of people in a room change, so does your sound.

Speaker placement and appropriate volume are key in restaurant / bar situations. I keep that in mind wether I'm hired to play or if I'm hired to run sound.

Hmmm - so I might be shooting myself in the foot to have a more even sound spread. In my mind, I'm considering that many of the regulars like to sit at the bar, and I'm thinking it would be nice if they could hear better. On the other hand, maybe they prefer to be sitting in a place where the sound level is greatly reduced.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

Hmmm - so I might be shooting myself in the foot to have a more even sound spread. In my mind, I'm considering that many of the regulars like to sit at the bar, and I'm thinking it would be nice if they could hear better. On the other hand, maybe they prefer to be sitting in a place where the sound level is greatly reduced.

I can't speak for everyone, although it might appear like I try to at times, but as previously mentioned, sometimes its nice for some people to be out of the sound field. Maybe they're on a date and just want to talk with the music way in the back ground.

Two conventional 90 degree boxes can also do 180 degree coverage if needed. You can also turn one of them down if need be. I just focus on putting the speakers where they make the most sense, and the mixer ends up where I can reach it.

[wguitar]

Just came across this thread and have learned a lot.

That being said, the OP's question was "As a solo performer, do you really need a mixer?" -- and the answer IMHO is not necessarily since it depends upon each musician's style, type of music, venue, and level of expertise in managing sound. My wife and I keep musician's ear plugs in the car because MOST of the time the music being played is too Loud (and I'm mostly talking about music baby boomers would typically listen to). Also, at times we listen to performers (or bands) that clearly didn't spend enough time doing a sound check. And at times the music is too soft or the vocals and instruments are not balanced, or whatever. While these things could all be fixed with proper sound management (including a mixer), we must remember that performing and sound management are 2 separate things, requiring different skills, attention to details, etc. When I had performed in bands our best gigs sound wise were when we had a sound man. Now I perform solo and only occasionally in small venues (coffee shops and the like) and audience feedback tells me that a simple setup, a good sound check, and a good monitor produce a great result for everyone. But that's just me. Happy strumming all !!

[phcorrigan]

This has been a very informative discussion. Having said that, can anyone recommend some online sources on the basics of setting up sound single singer/guitar players or small groups of musicians in smaller venues?

[krisls]

Late to this one... but, running an SA220 do you need a mixer. Not really, it may give you options ie greater EQ or Duo capability, but it aint essential at all.

A preamp on your Guitar could do more or less the same thing. VE8 or Play Acoustic or whatever other option you consider gives what you need. It always depends.

I will say I seriously considered an SA220 a few years back but ultimately decided the scalable powered speakers plus mixer would cover everything I do rather than some. Might be a single K8 and the SCraft Notepad 12fx or a pair of K10's and maybe even the 8's as monitors plus the MFXi8. Might even add a little sub now n then. Pedalboard and guitar. Coupla lights...

Depends on the place and what I need to cover it comfortably. So as a mostly solo player I guess I fall mostly in with The Kid and his comments. In a noisy bar the background conversation and general noise can sit around 100db so an SA or Bose will probably not cut much beyond a few metres into the room. You don't want to blow people off their chairs, but you do want to be heard cleanly. Knowing your gear and how to set up and what to tweak is a big part of that... almost as much as knowing the songs etc...

For what it's worth....

Kris

[Creekside Guitar]

This thread has gotten way off track. Any solo performer who uses a bose system or similar has a built in mixer. If you are a solo performer and want to carry around a few cabs and a mixer and extra cables, all the power to you.

For me, it is about simplicity and a basic setup that gets my sound across. It's all about what works for you and sound is SO subjective. It took me a while to find a working, lightweight solution. I use the bose S1 with a edb2 preamp into a k&k equipped Martin. This gives me flexibility for larger venues as well. I can run out of the edb2 into the house PA, or run out of the S1 into the house PA, and use the bose as a monitor. For my use at breweries, wineries, etc......the bose S1 is more than enough. It is also nice to be able to carry the S1 in its backpack, my guitar and a mic stand in one trip.