C A G E D system

[Bjbny]

After several prior half hearted attempts, I am staring to make a concerted effort to learn to more effectively navigate the fretboard through the C A G E D system using Toby Walker’s E Pack (which is excellent and I can highly recommend). With Toby’s materials, it is finally starting to click for me and I even had a lightbulb moment this past weekend when I was watching a Jorma video and was able to transcribe the licks he was teaching from G to E.

I was browsing around the internet and YouTube to learn more about the CAGED system though and keep seeing references to the pros and cons of the CAGED system. The pros seem pretty obvious to me, but I am curious what the knowledgeable people on this sub-forum think are the “cons” of the CAGED system.

[mattbn73]

Most people who are "against" seem to take issue with it as a way of thinking etc. I personally don't understand that. Isn't really a "method", in THAT sense. It's like saying "I'm not really an EGBDF treble clef" kind of player. EGBDF in and of itself, is kind of like CAGED in that the patterns are there whether you "think about them" or not.

There's a lot of "ears versus caged", "ears versus theory", "ears versus reading" etc, but "ears" is a completely separate issue. Shouldn't inhibit anything else. All of these things reinforce each other if you learn them well.

Beyond that, you can get into other fingerings systems, but that's mostly to do with other styles, like metal or jazz.

[agfsteve]

All of the detractors of CAGED seem to think it is something that it is not.

CAGED is simply a set of interlocking major chord shapes that allow one to quickly (for a beginner) navigate the fretboard, just like you said you were doing.

And like any music theory (using the term loosely, to describe thinking, as opposed to doing), once you've learned CAGED well enough, you can forget it in favour of just going straight to wherever you need to be on the fretboard without thinking about it (not that I'll ever get there, mind).

[simpl man]

The single biggest criticism I've heard of C A G E D is that it keeps you thinking in terms of "shapes" in a given position.

I don't necessarily agree with that, however, because there's nothing that says you have to stay in a given position to make use of it.

It's simply a way to learn where the notes are at on the fingerboard. What you do with them from there is up yo you!

[KDepew]

I don't really feel like there are cons. I think it is a good way to find your way around the fretboard. Especially for beginners.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Bjbny

The pros seem pretty obvious to me, but I am curious what the knowledgeable people on this sub-forum think are the “cons” of the CAGED system.

Cons usually come from people who don't like playing barre chords, but CAGED is pretty useful even if you are playing three for four fingered non barre chords. I often like using the barre because the root note of the chord in solo guitar playing is frequently on the 5th or 6th string.

[MC5C]

The main thing about the CAGED system is that it's an intermediary step in learning the fret-board, and there are many other systems/ideas that work equally well. It emphasizes positions, and it's important to move past that. For me, the whole CAGED idea was so obvious and apparent that I worked with it for around a half hour, and discarded it as a serious tool. What made a difference for me was realizing that the entire fretboard was a single, large integrated pattern of scales. The C chord pattern is exactly the same as the G chord pattern, and the D chord pattern, just shifted up or down a few frets. I found the CAGED system promotes playing in positions, when it can be more freeing to play outside of positions. To play, for example, a line in Bb major starting in first position, flowing to 11th position and back to 6th position, freely, without thinking of changing positions but rather playing the notes as freely as possible. CAGED could well be a stepping stone, but it's not really a destination. This does not mean I think it's bad in any way...

[rick-slo]

CAGED is just one way to get organized on the fretboard. Probably more useful to solo player doing fuller chords than for someone playing lead lines in a group.

Hopefully one learns a number of ways to get organized and play things.

[Mr. Jelly]

I learned before there was a caged system. Somehow I invented my own. Though my patterns are different I use the same notes. Patterns are a blessing and a curse. To begin with it gets you further faster. At some point you will hear that you have become a pattern player and you will hear others playing patterns as your ear will pick it up. If you continue you will most likely desire to make music other than the patterns. You start trying things like using the notes from the back of one pattern with notes on the front of another pattern. Music, real music isn't in a pattern or system. Though you can play allot of guitar with patterns. Guitar playing, real guitar playing isn't in patterns either. The pay off comes when it all implodes together and you can use the notes up and down the fret board as you please.

[rick-slo]

CAGED system is not really a playing pattern. It's a search function, a way of finding notes. What notes you play is up to you.

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

CAGED system is not really a playing pattern. It's a search function, a way of finding notes. What notes you play is up to you.

Exactly. It's like a map--nothing more. A map tells you how to get from one place to another, but it's up to you to decide what to do when you get there. A road map is extremely useful in navigating a new town, and as soon as you get to know the town you can ditch the map. It's the same with CAGED: Town = Fretboard; Road Map = CAGED.

Complaining about CAGED is like blaming the New York Subway map for not having a good time in the city.

[FwL]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

Exactly. It's like a map--nothing more. A map tells you how to get from one place to another, but it's up to you to decide what to do when you get there. A road map is extremely useful in navigating a new town, and as soon as you get to know the town you can ditch the map. It's the same with CAGED: Town = Fretboard; Road Map = CAGED.

Complaining about CAGED is like blaming the New York Subway map for not having a good time in the city.

I'd say CAGED is more like following a GPS. There are several different ways to navigate the streets of the town to get where you need to go, but the GPS insists on one route.

.

[JonPR]

I agree with all the above. The cons are the same as for any pattern-based system: the arguable temptation to not see beyond it, and to assign too much significance to the patterns. To use the patterns as a crutch rather than a springboard.
There may be some teachers of the patterns who encourage that view, perhaps scared to put learners off with too much "theory stuff" .

Like many others, I taught myself the fretboard using the same principle - spotting that the same chord shapes repeated up the fretboard - before I ever realised it was a "system". It was obvious that a "C" shape was only a C chord (sound) in open position (and 12th fret). But it was equally obvious that a C major scale around that chord in open position would be a major scale for that shape wherever it was on the neck. Put it on 5th fret, you have an F major chord and scale. Etc.
For me, I think it began with using a capo - working out that an Am shape with capo on 3 was a Cm chord. Then finding that a C shape on 5th fret (x-8-7-5-6-5) was an F chord. Cool! (better than that awful 1-3-3-2-1-1 barre ).

However, this was all based on getting very familiar with chords and (major) scales in open position first. I didn't venture up the neck much to begin with without a capo in support; but that, of course only underlined the CAGED system, by removing the need to play those shapes as barres.

[simpl man]

Originally Posted by FwL

I'd say CAGED is more like following a GPS. There are several different ways to navigate the streets of the town to get where you need to go, but the GPS insists on one route.

.

See, this what I’m sayin.

Let’s use the map analogy. A map shows you the roads and the places you may want to go. It doesn’t tell you how to get there. The route you take and where you go is up to you.

C A G E D is no different. It only shows you all the notes that fit within a given scale. It does not inform you as to where and when or what order to play them in. Nor does it say that you cannot switch to another scale or choose a different note at any time. That is for the player to decide given the information available.

[rick-slo]

Listenable (recognizable and anticipatory) music is the use of patterns (of notes, chords, chord progressions, etc.) and lots of repetitions, not randomness.

Any way you approach playing something you're going to be doing that. A great composer has a large pool to draw from yet his own set of patterns and conventions used has boundaries and makes him recognizable – I will not mistake a prelude written by Chopin as being one written by Bach.

Be it on you to have the ear to be able to use a variety of patterns in interesting and at least somewhat pleasant ways.