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  #31  
Old 06-07-2023, 12:06 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Originally Posted by PassingThru View Post
Two years ago Donald said ďIf you donít take the money now, you will get nothing after the merger takes place and only say how smart the original signees were.Ē
However correct, that prediction would hold a lot more credibility if it had been uttered by someone whose own pockets weren't being lined by that same money.
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  #32  
Old 06-07-2023, 12:33 PM
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My guess is that Monahan will be fired since the PGA Tour pros know that he can't be trusted.

I'm sure both he and the Saudis anticipated that and that Monahan will get a BIG check from the Saudis that will set him up financially for life.

Always follow the money.

If I was Rory, who was clearly a sacrificial lamb in this ordeal, I'd look at my $450MM net worth and say, "I don't need this anymore. I'm now retired from competitive golf and will enjoy life with my family."

I was astounded by Jack Nicklaus coming out in favor of this when just last week he wouldn't allow LIV players to participate in his wonderful Memorial Tour event. But then MUCH has been written about the bitter legal lawsuit Jack is fighting against his multi-billionaire partner. Maybe the Saudis offered to settle that for him?

Always follow the money.

When the dust settles, the Saudis will rule professional golf.

As always, follow the money.
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  #33  
Old 06-07-2023, 12:49 PM
frankmcr frankmcr is offline
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The dollar has been very strong in recent decades. Last time I checked, the dollar to soul exchange rate was 10,000 to 1Ö.your soul only fetches $10,000 now. Lots of people want dollars, whereas interest in the soul has been very weak of late.
How much is that in riyals?
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  #34  
Old 06-07-2023, 02:45 PM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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This stinks for reasons that cannot be discussed without violating the rules of the forum. I predict that it will cost Jay Monahan his job.
I going to change my tune a bit. This is a very confusing situation, and news outlets (who don’t know the details) may be misinterpreting what’s going on. The early reports were clearly uninformed.

This is not a buyout of the PGA by LIV. LIV wasn’t even involved in the negotiations. Greg Norman, the CEO of LIV, was notified of the deal only minutes before the public announcement. The agreement is between the Saudi investment group known as PIF, the PGA Tour, and the DP World Tour (the European tour). LIV is owned by PIF, which owns any number of businesses, as well, including a British soccer team.

Some sort of as yet to be defined ‘for profit’ corporate umbrella is being formed that would coordinate the PIF’s golf ambitions, the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour. It’s not at all clear that LIV would remain in its current form or that Norman would continue to be involved. Both seem unlikely.

Why? Several things are in play. First, PIF recently lost a court motion in the UK the result of which would require the Saudi Crown Prince to be deposed. He did not want this. Hence, he would like all pending lawsuits to be dropped. Second, the LIV tour is not successful. They have no TV contract, very little public following and essentially no corporate sponsors. They are losing money at a horrific rate. This gives the Saudis a second reason to seek a deal and partially explains why the new corporate entity will be a ‘for profit’ venture.

On the US side, the PGA Tour is losing sponsors. Honda is dropping out of the Honda Classic, and a prominent west coast tournament also lost its principal sponsor. Corporations are no longer lining up to sponsor tournaments. On the European side, the DP World Tour has always been strapped for cash, and they lost their most bankable players to LIV. So, the ground was fertile for a deal.

Lots of issues need to be ironed out. First, will LIV players be allowed back into the PGA Tour and DP World Tour? No mechanism has been set up, and PGA players are opposed. Second, will LIV players be allowed to play in the upcoming Ryder Cup? This event is sponsored by the PGA of America, not the PGA Tour. Will Greg Norman be involved in the new entity any way? He was not part of the negotiations and appears to have been marginalized. No one would be sorry to see him go.

Finally, forgotten in all of this (and perhaps unrelated) is that before the pandemic, there were tons of news reports saying that golf was dying. Rounds were down, golf course real estate was tanking, and people seemed to have lost interest. But the pandemic fostered a renewed interest, because people started working from home on the golf course. I suspect that phenomenon is now dying down as people are returning to the office. I don’t think that US golf is as financially healthy as people seem to think it is. All the money to be made is oversees. Hence, starting a world-wide golf venture makes sense.
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  #35  
Old 06-07-2023, 03:42 PM
guitar12 guitar12 is offline
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Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
You ain't kidding. This is a "merger" with a country, the ruler of which ordered the murder of a journalist of the Washington Post, among other publications. And now this country has essentially bought the United States' Professional Golfers Association? No outrage at this development could be overstated.
That's the least of it. There is no greater outrage than from the organization '9/11 Families United'.

Rob
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  #36  
Old 06-07-2023, 04:09 PM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
This is a very confusing situation...
Your above analysis might be completely correct (although LIV did have a TV contract with the CW network, albeit also a loser ratings wise) and the details do seem to be still very confusing, but what appears to be crystal clear at this stage is:
We have a new de facto CEO of the professional golf tours, incl. the PGA:

I'm not predicting a doomed future for the Golf Tours, only a very different one from when Arnie was around.
Not sure what it means. I think the ground is still shaking...
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  #37  
Old 06-07-2023, 05:56 PM
Tahitijack Tahitijack is offline
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They call sports business for a very good reason...
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  #38  
Old 06-07-2023, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AX17609 View Post
I going to change my tune a bit. This is a very confusing situation, and news outlets (who donít know the details) may be misinterpreting whatís going on. The early reports were clearly uninformed.

This is not a buyout of the PGA by LIV. LIV wasnít even involved in the negotiations. Greg Norman, the CEO of LIV, was notified of the deal only minutes before the public announcement. The agreement is between the Saudi investment group known as PIF, the PGA Tour, and the DP World Tour (the European tour). LIV is owned by PIF, which owns any number of businesses, as well, including a British soccer team.

Some sort of as yet to be defined Ďfor profití corporate umbrella is being formed that would coordinate the PIFís golf ambitions, the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour. Itís not at all clear that LIV would remain in its current form or that Norman would continue to be involved. Both seem unlikely.

Why? Several things are in play. First, PIF recently lost a court motion in the UK the result of which would require the Saudi Crown Prince to be deposed. He did not want this. Hence, he would like all pending lawsuits to be dropped. Second, the LIV tour is not successful. They have no TV contract, very little public following and essentially no corporate sponsors. They are losing money at a horrific rate. This gives the Saudis a second reason to seek a deal and partially explains why the new corporate entity will be a Ďfor profití venture.

On the US side, the PGA Tour is losing sponsors. Honda is dropping out of the Honda Classic, and a prominent west coast tournament also lost its principal sponsor. Corporations are no longer lining up to sponsor tournaments. On the European side, the DP World Tour has always been strapped for cash, and they lost their most bankable players to LIV. So, the ground was fertile for a deal.

Lots of issues need to be ironed out. First, will LIV players be allowed back into the PGA Tour and DP World Tour? No mechanism has been set up, and PGA players are opposed. Second, will LIV players be allowed to play in the upcoming Ryder Cup? This event is sponsored by the PGA of America, not the PGA Tour. Will Greg Norman be involved in the new entity any way? He was not part of the negotiations and appears to have been marginalized. No one would be sorry to see him go.

Finally, forgotten in all of this (and perhaps unrelated) is that before the pandemic, there were tons of news reports saying that golf was dying. Rounds were down, golf course real estate was tanking, and people seemed to have lost interest. But the pandemic fostered a renewed interest, because people started working from home on the golf course. I suspect that phenomenon is now dying down as people are returning to the office. I donít think that US golf is as financially healthy as people seem to think it is. All the money to be made is oversees. Hence, starting a world-wide golf venture makes sense.
I think much of what you say is conjecture, and probably incorrect. It's very simple: Golf, as the premier game for those with manners, courtesy, and respect has gone away. It's replaced with a pro tour where none of that matters, only money. Take some of it and honor those who died on 9/11. I'm done with pro golf and it's greedy members. Follow the LPGA.
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  #39  
Old 06-07-2023, 07:46 PM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is online now
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What a mess, never saw this coming. I despise the Sauds. Never have figured out how/why they got away without repercussions from 9-11. Other than 'follow the money'... becuz they got the oil. Probably been some good books written about the 9-11 connection.

I do love golf and follow it. But not LIV.
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  #40  
Old 06-08-2023, 04:27 AM
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A deal with the devil. Just wrong.
Agree 100%. Unfortunately, you and I contribute to their funds at every fill-up.
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  #41  
Old 06-08-2023, 08:57 AM
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I find the whole thing sickening actually. I did not like the split, although I can't blame the players for taking the money to leave, I would like to think I would not have done it since they already made very good money.

I am shocked that this happened, with as much animosity that had been thrown back and forth among the leadership and the players, it truly has to be about the money again, no other explanation makes any sense. I also am shocked so few knew about this especially in the current days of leakers and press at the ready to be the first to break a story before facts are even corroborated.

All that said, I still like golf, will still play it, and will still follow the feel good stories like Steve Stricker and his daughters and local players like Jordan Speith. I feel like the PGA, if there is still a recognizable PGA when this is done, needs to step up and do something for Rory, the most vocal advocate they had throughout all of this.
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  #42  
Old 06-08-2023, 09:30 AM
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Money Talks has always been a mantra for American business. We just never envisioned the day someone would have more money than us.
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  #43  
Old 06-08-2023, 10:43 AM
TheGITM TheGITM is offline
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I'm going on record stating that this merger will not happen.

The PGA is a golfer's association and the players were not included in negotiations. The player's committee can stop the merger with a simple NO vote.

Even if the players were to agree, there is still the potential for either the DOJ and/or the SEC to reject the proposal.

The reality is this: LIV golf cannot make a profit (and they weren't trying to). The PGA cannot compete with the LIV prize purses and remain economically viable. The litigation costs alone for the PGA were going to be enormous. Even if everything moved forward with the merger, there is no viable business model that will make enough money to be profitable. The whole idea of 'team golf' is a non-starter. It took years for the Ryder Cup to generate interest and even with that there isn't prize money involved. I believe that the winning team gets money to donate to charities. The LIV golf concept simply won't make money. Ever.

I believe that this proposal gets the PGA off the hook for all pending litigation, and that will remain true even if the player veto the merger, or the DOJ or SEC reject the deal.

We'll see what happens, but my gut tells me that in the end, this will eliminate LIV golf entirely.
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  #44  
Old 06-08-2023, 10:49 AM
Gitfiddlemann Gitfiddlemann is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Paul View Post
We just never envisioned the day someone would have more money than us.
And making a concerted effort, especially in the last few years, of sticking it to us at every opportunity, and in all ways possible.
Golf is but just the latest trophy on the mantle....

But I too feel particularly bad for the good guys in this saga, especially Rory.

For a feel good golf story to change things up, check out: Rose Zhang, newest member of the LPGA by virtue of her win last week. Decorated amateur player, who goes on to win in her first event as a pro. Pretty special. She's the real deal, on many levels. I hope she makes the US Solheim Cup team this year.
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Golf is pretty simple. It's just not that easy.
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  #45  
Old 06-08-2023, 11:05 AM
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It's hard but not impossible to nor a horrible sacrifice to live thinking about our actions and footprint on earth. Where my brain goes in this is someone who truly loves the sport could likely still find municipal courses near home and play a game they love.

There's been blowback in other sports with good alternatives that still let us enjoy them. I don't know if golf has the right demographic for that which is enough young enthusiasts.

My best advice to those upset would be play the sport locally more than fuel it as a spectator sport.
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