The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-07-2021, 12:52 AM
hatamoto hatamoto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 317
Default Counting notes

For eighth notes I count "1 and 2 and 3 ......"
For triplet eight notes it's "1 triplet, 2 triplet..."
Sixteenth notes= 1e and a 2 e ....

How would you count 32 notes?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-07-2021, 03:13 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 502
Default

1-ee-and-uh-one-ee-and-uh / 2-ee-and-uh-two-ee-and-uh / 3-ee-and-uh-three-ee-and-uh...
__________________
Resources for flamenco guitarists. Transcriptions now available in PDF and MP3: www.canteytoque.es
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-07-2021, 10:18 AM
reeve21 reeve21 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Central Connecticut, USA
Posts: 4,274
Default

I might change the time signature in my head and count them as 16ths (1,2,3,4). I'm doing something similar now with a ragtime tune that is written in cut time, turning 16ths into eighth notes for counting purposes. 4/4 just seems easier to me.

I had a band teacher in jr. high school who had some crazy ways to count. 4 sixteenth notes followed by two eighth notes was "Mississippi Down Up."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-07-2021, 10:24 AM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,467
Default

ha-ta-mo-to-2-ta-mo-to
__________________
Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2021, 03:07 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,525
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hatamoto View Post
For eighth notes I count "1 and 2 and 3 ......"
For triplet eight notes it's "1 triplet, 2 triplet..."
Sixteenth notes= 1e and a 2 e ....

How would you count 32 notes?
I don't. I don't count 16ths either. Or triplets.
I know how triplets and 16ths sound, I don't see the need to verbalise them. I feel them.

Of course I can hear and feel straight 8ths too, and I might occasionally verbalise them as "one and two and..." etc, but only when teaching. Not when playing or learning a piece! I really can't see the point, and never have.

For me, verbalising a count is using a different part of my brain from the part that understands (feels) time. IOW, if I count - either in my head or out loud - I can't play as well.
I'm more likely to visualise beat subdivisions, i.e., like a ruler marked in 16ths or 32nds of an inch. You don't label the markings on a ruler with words or syllables! You just see them, and their position within the inch (and the larger subdivisions) is obvious. For me, musical time works like that.

As for 32nds, I never play them, certainly not in runs. In the music I play, they only ever occur occasionally as embellishment within other subdivisons, but then the larger subdivisions dominate. 32nds are just the "notes in between the 16ths", same as 16ths are the "notes between the 8ths".
__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2021, 03:20 AM
Su_H. Su_H. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 208
Default

I don't count 16th notes and beyond.

For triplets, I was taught to count tri-poe-let.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2021, 04:18 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albion
Posts: 401
Default

For triplets I must have been taught something but can't remember what but when I started
relying more on playing by ear I thought Fats Domino and his piano playing on Blueberry Hill.

Last edited by Andyrondack; 04-08-2021 at 04:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-08-2021, 10:39 PM
hatamoto hatamoto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 317
Default

Thanks everyone. After spending some time with it, I think I got it down.

I turned on my metronome at 60bpm, and started tapping 16th's with my right hand. Then I responded with my left hand also tapping in 16th's sub accents in alternating fashion. So that should be in 32's right? Hope that makes sense.

I understand how some don't count 32's, it's just too wordy. Guess I just needed a starting point.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2021, 04:34 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
I'm more likely to visualise beat subdivisions, i.e., like a ruler marked in 16ths or 32nds of an inch. You don't label the markings on a ruler with words or syllables! You just see them, and their position within the inch (and the larger subdivisions) is obvious. For me, musical time works like that.
But there’s nothing visual about music, except for scores, and the idea here is to help interpret written music. Of course nobody labels a ruler, but you’d use it to make pencil marks on a board you’re going to cut or whatever, wouldn’t you? I don’t care much for analogies, because there’s no quicker way to sidetrack a discussion. That said, I do think a ruler is a useful and interesting analogy with regard to time values.

Quintuplets are about the only “common” time value for which I sometimes have to resort to a counting method, but I don’t use syllables. I’ll either mentally count “1-2-3-4-5” or think of how a two-fingered slur on an open string sounds (0-2-4-2-0) or how a four-finger rasgueado sounds (e-a-m-i-i).
__________________
Resources for flamenco guitarists. Transcriptions now available in PDF and MP3: www.canteytoque.es
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2021, 08:10 AM
rick-slo's Avatar
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 14,536
Default

Some of the music I have tabbed out with the timing I use when playing it is way beyond counting out the details. Sometimes you just
have to hear the music played (an advantage of tabs that can do that).
__________________
Derek Coombs
Website -> Music -> Tabs -> and Youtube
Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs
Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love
To be that we hold so dear
A voice from heavens above
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-12-2021, 03:49 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,525
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanKliman View Post
But there’s nothing visual about music
Sure. I only meant that I visualise time in that way - like a clock face turned into a straight line (and infinite length). I see musical time as a series of regular steps, and then see how all the beat divisions fall into it.

I mean, I feel it first, as sounds in time, but if I have to conceptualise it in any other way (and I don't often), then it's like a ruler. To me, that's far more intuitive than counting using words.

I do agree with konnakol syllables though - that avoids the superfluous meanings of words like "one", "and", or "triplet" (which involve the wrong part of the brain), in order to concentrate purely on rhythmic sounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanKliman View Post
, except for scores, and the idea here is to help interpret written music. Of course nobody labels a ruler, but you’d use it to make pencil marks on a board you’re going to cut or whatever, wouldn’t you? I don’t care much for analogies, because there’s no quicker way to sidetrack a discussion. That said, I do think a ruler is a useful and interesting analogy with regard to time values.
Yes, that's all I meant!
__________________
"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-12-2021, 04:38 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 502
Default

Thanks, Jon. Actually, after I posted that message, it occurred to me that I don't really know whether or not the OP was referring to interpretation of written music. Certainly, there's no place for counting when performing. Maybe for some kind of long rest, but not within a single beat. I usually resort to some kind of counting when writing out music, as a means of double-checking my work, or to decipher a particularly odd-looking score.
__________________
Resources for flamenco guitarists. Transcriptions now available in PDF and MP3: www.canteytoque.es
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:54 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Albion
Posts: 401
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanKliman View Post
But thereÂ’s nothing visual about music, except for scores, and the idea here is to help interpret written music. Of course nobody labels a ruler, but youÂ’d use it to make pencil marks on a board youÂ’re going to cut or whatever, wouldnÂ’t you? I donÂ’t care much for analogies, because thereÂ’s no quicker way to sidetrack a discussion. That said, I do think a ruler is a useful and interesting analogy with regard to time values.
.
A ruler is a lot more than merely an 'interesting analogy with regard to time...'
A traditional clock face is a ruler(rule) divided into 12 equal spatial distances, it does not measure time, or space but velocity, it is a speedometer measuring the speed which the hour hand completes a circuit relative to the time it takes the earth to revolve in space.
24 hours a day = 24 units of space on the clock face divided by the time it takes the earth to complete 1 revolution, a clock is a speedometer this logic lead Einstein to formulate his special theory of relativity where measurements of space and time are linked as different ways of describing the same phenomena.
A metronome is another kind of speedometer, it measures space÷time .

Last edited by Andyrondack; 04-13-2021 at 05:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-13-2021, 10:12 AM
NormanKliman NormanKliman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyrondack View Post
A ruler is a lot more than merely an 'interesting analogy with regard to time...'
A traditional clock face is a ruler(rule) divided into 12 equal spatial distances, it does not measure time, or space but velocity, it is a speedometer measuring the speed which the hour hand completes a circuit relative to the time it takes the earth to revolve in space.
24 hours a day = 24 units of space on the clock face divided by the time it takes the earth to complete 1 revolution, a clock is a speedometer this logic lead Einstein to formulate his special theory of relativity where measurements of space and time are linked as different ways of describing the same phenomena.
A metronome is another kind of speedometer, it measures space÷time .
Sorry, I don't know what you’re talking about or what any of that has to do with the guitar.
__________________
Resources for flamenco guitarists. Transcriptions now available in PDF and MP3: www.canteytoque.es
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-16-2021, 01:15 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 8,467
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanKliman View Post
Sorry, I don't know what you’re talking about or what any of that has to do with the guitar.
Interestingly, Gerhard Graf-Martinez's flamenco materials teach rhythms using--you guessed it--a clock.
__________________
Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=