Weird Pre-Kalamazoo Epiphone Flat Top?

[Jim Owen]

I accidentally ran across this on the Bay, and have no idea what it is. Zombiewoof—have you any notion? Don’t anyone worry; I ain’t crazy enough to buy it. And I don’t have the coin, anyway.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/26552267609...mis&media=COPY

It ain’t a Madrid, which I recall was a classical. It’s got the neck of a pre-Kalamazoo Epi (replaced tuners, though). It’s a 12 fretter so maybe it was designed for Hawaiian play like the Smecks?

Bridge looks very odd to me. But pickguard does look Epi.

Any ideas?

[Osage]

This is a c.1936 Epiphone Madrid. It was a short lived Hawaiian model that, along with the Navarre, were Epiphone's answer to the Smeck. They're ladder braced and long scale and unfortunately, don't sound anything like a Smeck.

[OldFrets]

The Madrid was indeed a steel-string Hawaiian guitar. Annoyingly, this variant was not pictured in a catalog - but this guitar sure matches the description. The bridge was typical of late '30s Epi flat tops.

[Osage]

Here's the catalog pic:

[Steve DeRosa]

Checked out the listing myself, and this is what I can piece together:

• Epiphone's prewar classical guitars were the Concert, Alhambra, and Seville, only the first of which used the large 16-1/2" body shared with the advertised instrument;
• The Madrid and Navarre were Epiphone's earliest large-body (16-1/2") flattop offerings dating to 1931 and, although originally intended for conventional playing, were advertised as being adaptable to Hawaiian style with the installation of an elevated nut (or use of a removeable conversion nut such as the one produced by Grover, which fit directly over the existing nut without modification);
• The combination of the single-peak peghead, script logo, round soundhole (the earliest versions had four f-holes around the perimeter of the top like Gibson's HG Hawaiian guitars), and non-staggered pins on what appears to be a compensated original pyramid bridge date it to around 1936, just as the model was making its transition to an exclusively Hawaiian-style instrument;
• Although most of the shots are somewhat fuzzy the markers appear to be of the slotted-block type standard on the Madrid - however, they are placed at frets 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, and 15 (on most Madrids the last marker was at the 19th fret, with none at fret 15) - and the headstock inlay is the same one used on the contemporary 16" Spartan archtop;
• The original tuners would have been oval metal-button, open-back Grovers, similar to those used on the upper-line archtops of the period and likely gold-plated as well...

This is definitely a New York-era Epiphone Madrid and, given the combination of features and assuming near-complete originality - the Rotomatics are clearly an anachronism and, as stated before, some of the pics are too fuzzy to make a final determination - likely one of the very last such models to be produced as a "Spanish" (conventional, rather than "Hawaiian") guitar. Whether or not it's worth the $3300 asking price is up to you - as some of the previous posters have mentioned it's ladder-braced unlike its erstwhile Gibson/Martin big-body competitors, which will have a definite effect on tone (and which some players prefer, BTW); suffice it to say that, as a native New Yorker who's been in this game for 60 years in Epiphone's hometown - and having played most of their New York models at one time or another - their flattop guitars are quite rare in comparison to their iconic archtops and, unlike the latter, IMO command much of their asking price on rarity alone...

[Jim Owen]

Thanks, all. I’d never seen a 12 fret Epiphone from the old days. It did remind me of the Smeck. Thanks for the info on that odd bridge, Oldfrets.

Rare, indeed.

[bobster7]

Glenn’s guitars has a 1936 Navarre in stock, I wish I had the funds!

[zombywoof]

If you are interested, here is a link to the catalog where much of the info showing up here comes from. This site is a great starting point when it comes to trying to figure something you have run across out.

https://acousticmusic.org/wp-content...38-Catalog.pdf

[stevo58]

This site

https://wiedler.ch/nyepireg/models.html#Flattop

has some information which may help dating it precisely. If you are interested in NY Episode, and don’t know the site, you should.

I do think there’s a typo, I think 1932 should be “Spanish setup” as in the Navarre

Steven

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by stevo58

This site

https://wiedler.ch/nyepireg/models.html#Flattop

has some information which may help dating it precisely. If you are interested in NY Episode, and don’t know the site, you should.

I do think there’s a typo, I think 1932 should be “Spanish setup” as in the Navarre

Steven

I believe my Epi FT-79 is on their Registry. The only other Epi flattop I have ever owned was an FT-110. I never knew what year it was built though as back in the day it was pretty much impossible to figure such things out unless there happened to have been an original bill of sale tucked away in the case,