Anyone upgrade from the Anthem SL to the full Anthem?

[Petty1818]

I have seen a lot of threads and comments from people who have switched from the full Anthem to the SL version. However, I am wondering if anyone has gone in the other direction? One of my guitars has the SL and although it frustrates me at times, I am somewhat used to the nice, biting, mic-like tone that I can get with it. The problem is that I almost feel as though the mic is just too dialled in on the SL version. Sometimes I plug it in and my guitar just has this hollow, mid range tone that's a bit too bright and thin. I have tried the adjustment screw but since it's not a blend control, it doesn't help much.

I know some musicians who have the full version and run it with the blend all the way towards the mic, which I believe is exactly what the SL is set for. However, I have heard from Baggs employees that the SL is still a bit more clear, hi-fi. I don't love the thought of the Element as it has changed the tone of my guitar a bit but I just wouldn't mind being able to dial in a warmer/bass tone.

[doublescale1]

i have the full Anthem with the blend and I have yet to have it dialed to 100% mic in a live situation - I'm usually dialed in with 60% mic and 40% under-saddle pickup - and I'll adjust for the room from there. A lot of times a 70/30, or 80/20 mix hits a sweet spot, but generally some amount of "dryness" from the USP blended with the mic keeps the guitar from getting too woofy in the bass or shrill on the top end. Been my experience anyway, which is mostly sitting down at an open mic, plugging in to their DI box and listening to what I'm hearing in the floor wedge. I definitely like having the ability to blend the mic with the USP.

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I know some musicians who have the full version and run it with the blend all the way towards the mic, which I believe is exactly what the SL is set for. However, I have heard from Baggs employees that the SL is still a bit more clear, hi-fi. I don't love the thought of the Element as it has changed the tone of my guitar a bit but I just wouldn't mind being able to dial in a warmer/bass tone.

You realize that both the Anthem and Anthem SL use the Element UST... right?

I've owned both, depends on the person, the guitar, the situation.

[MrErikJ]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I know some musicians who have the full version and run it with the blend all the way towards the mic, which I believe is exactly what the SL is set for. However, I have heard from Baggs employees that the SL is still a bit more clear, hi-fi. I don't love the thought of the Element as it has changed the tone of my guitar a bit but I just wouldn't mind being able to dial in a warmer/bass tone.

Yeah, the SL is a preset version of the Anthem with the blend set at a generically "ideal" setting, probably 60/40 or 70/30 mic to pickup. It probably sounds more "hi-fi" because it has more string presence due to the UST, but it is definitely not all mic. The Element is, ultimately, the backbone of the Anthem and it depends on it for stability. If you don't like the sound of the Element (I don't either) you could try the Lyric which has no secondary pickup or the Baggs Dual Source which comes with the Element, but is modifiable and many (including LJGuitar here) have replaced with the Baggs LB6 with good results. Ultimately, if you like the sound of the Anthem the Lyric is probably a good option to try, but it probably won't be quite as stable and adjustable as the Anthem.

[dannyg1]

There's also some other options if you to the older Baggs offerings. First is the ribbon UST that was standard with the Dual RT and then with the first, early Baggs dual sources. Second is the pickup many people replace the E!ement with, the Baggs LB6.

[guitaniac]

The deal with the Anthem SL is that the UST provides all the frequencies from 250Hz (near the fundamental frequency of the open 'b' string) on down, while the mic provides all the frequencies above 250Hz. 250 Hz is the theoretical stated "crossover frequency", but in practice I suspect that the UST picks up a bit of signal above 250Hz and the mic pics up a bit of signal below 250Hz. I suspect that both the UST and the mic pick up a healthy amount of signal at 250Hz, since the signal from my own Anthem SL rig is especially strong around that frequency.

The adjustment screw adjusts the amount of gain (adjustable over a limited range) on the TruMic. The TruMic level needs to be adjusted (for a pleasing UST/mic balance) in every individual case because the output of the UST signal will vary somewhat from instrument to instrument due to the mechanics of the UST installation. (Factors like the amount of saddle extending above the bridge, the angle of the saddle and the angle of the strings across the saddle will have some influence on the level of signal being fed into the Anthem SL's UST preamp).

When the full Anthem system's blend control is at the full mic position, you have the same condition as with the Anthem SL system. (The UST picks up frequencies below 250Hz. The TruMic picks up frequencies above 250Hz.)

When the full Anthem system's blend control is moved toward the UST side, the full spectrum UST signal is being blended in.


The Anthem SL has been my usual gigging pickup, but it does require some unusual EQ adjustments to satisfy my own taste in tone. Luckily, my Zoom A3's six band graphic EQ, and its two band parametric EQ, can be used in series to do the job.

[se7ent7]

You may want to try this - more complicated but more control, and better tone than an Anthem (original or SL) or Lyric on their own:

A Lyric with a good UST - Anthem Killer!

The big advantage with this is you can run the UST of your choice through a modeller like tha Zoom A3, Spectrum Aura, Mama Bear etc. to lessen the piezo sound, which is very obvious and inherent in the Anthem.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by se7ent7

You may want to try this - more complicated but more control, and better tone than an Anthem (original or SL) or Lyric on their own:

A Lyric with a good UST - Anthem Killer!

The big advantage with this is you can run the UST of your choice through a modeller like tha Zoom A3, Spectrum Aura, Mama Bear etc. to lessen the piezo sound, which is very obvious and inherent in the Anthem.

That's my other favorite live performance rig (Lyric and PUTW I/O UST), but its more complicated to set up. I need to EQ the crap out of the Lyric signal (a Boss GE-7 suffices) before using my Zoom A3 to blend. (I could use the A3 to EQ the Lyric signal, but the A3's mic input doesn't have sufficient input impedance to deal with the passive PUTW UST. I need a second outboard preamp {for the passive UST} when I do it that way.)

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by se7ent7

You may want to try this - more complicated but more control, and better tone than an Anthem (original or SL) or Lyric on their own:

A Lyric with a good UST - Anthem Killer!

The big advantage with this is you can run the UST of your choice through a modeller like tha Zoom A3, Spectrum Aura, Mama Bear etc. to lessen the piezo sound, which is very obvious and inherent in the Anthem.

I have often thought about removing the Element from the Anthem SL and wiring in another UST. I know this would probably be more work than is necessary but I have just never loved the tonality of the Element.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

The deal with the Anthem SL is that the UST provides all the frequencies from 250Hz (near the fundamental frequency of the open 'b' string) on down, while the mic provides all the frequencies above 250Hz. 250 Hz is the theoretical stated "crossover frequency", but in practice I suspect that the UST picks up a bit of signal above 250Hz and the mic pics up a bit of signal below 250Hz. I suspect that both the UST and the mic pick up a healthy amount of signal at 250Hz, since the signal from my own Anthem SL rig is especially strong around that frequency.

The adjustment screw adjusts the amount of gain (adjustable over a limited range) on the TruMic. The TruMic level needs to be adjusted (for a pleasing UST/mic balance) in every individual case because the output of the UST signal will vary somewhat from instrument to instrument due to the mechanics of the UST installation. (Factors like the amount of saddle extending above the bridge, the angle of the saddle and the angle of the strings across the saddle will have some influence on the level of signal being fed into the Anthem SL's UST preamp).

When the full Anthem system's blend control is at the full mic position, you have the same condition as with the Anthem SL system. (The UST picks up frequencies below 250Hz. The TruMic picks up frequencies above 250Hz.)

When the full Anthem system's blend control is moved toward the UST side, the full spectrum UST signal is being blended in.


The Anthem SL has been my usual gigging pickup, but it does require some unusual EQ adjustments to satisfy my own taste in tone. Luckily, my Zoom A3's six band graphic EQ, and its two band parametric EQ, can be used in series to do the job.

That's kind of what I am wondering. I know the crossover set up and I had read that the SL is supposed to be the same blend as you would get with the full Anthem when the blend is all the way towards the mic. I guess I am just wondering if those of you who have a full Anthem, actually blend all the way to the mic or somewhere in between etc?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rschultz

You realize that both the Anthem and Anthem SL use the Element UST... right?

I've owned both, depends on the person, the guitar, the situation.

Yep, I just mean that I don't love the thought of ripping out the SL to put a full Anthem in since I already notice a bit of a change with my unplugged tone with the SL. Ideally I would like a different pickup but the Anthem has some nice features that I like. What do you currently like?

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I have often thought about removing the Element from the Anthem SL and wiring in another UST. I know this would probably be more work than is necessary but I have just never loved the tonality of the Element.

I recall that someone did something similar with the K&K Pure Mini SBT substituting for the Element. You'd have to be careful not to choose a pickup which will overdrive the Element preamp. As USTs go, the somewhat pricey PUTW I/O UST would likely be a good choice. I'm not sure that it would be worth the effort, though.

EQing the snot out of the Anthem SL signal works for me. You might want to do a little experimenting with something as simple and inexpensive as a Boss GE-7. EQing down both the muddy low mids (at 200Hz) and the brittle highs (at 6.4KHz) with a GE-7 might help in some cases. Those probably wouldn't be the only cuts, but they might be a good start.

[Jarvis]

I wished the Anthem came with the RTS2 UST which was more natural sounding than the metallic sounding Elements

[rokdog49]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I don't have any issues with the Element in my SL System as far as tone goes. I definitely don't find it quacky at all. I do often run through my Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI in a live situation to a board and I set the SL at about 25-30% Tru-Mic which is what the Baggs guys say is most common. If I feel the need to change that percentage live, the handy dandy little plastic screwdriver that comes with the pickup is always in my case and it once I adjust the Tru-Mic at sound check, I'm good. If I need more or less bottom, mids or highs on the fly, I can use the Fishman to do that. If I use an amp, I can EQ that way.
It seems the Baggs I-Beam doesn't get much love here. I have one in my Eastman E 10 00 and it sounds very good. No quack and very natural.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I guess I'm in the minority here. I don't have any issues with the Element in my SL System as far as tone goes. I definitely don't find it quacky at all. I do often run through my Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI in a live situation to a board and I set the SL at about 25-30% Tru-Mic which is what the Baggs guys say is most common. If I feel the need to change that percentage live, the handy dandy little plastic screwdriver that comes with the pickup is always in my case and it once I adjust the Tru-Mic at sound check, I'm good. If I need more or less bottom, mids or highs on the fly, I can use the Fishman to do that. If I use an amp, I can EQ that way.
It seems the Baggs I-Beam doesn't get much love here. I have one in my Eastman E 10 00 and it sounds very good. No quack and very natural.

It's not so much the quack that bothers me, it's the actual tone of the Element. It has this metallic sound to it that I don't like on its own but when paired with the high end of the tru-mic, just sounds over the top hi-fi. I am not sure if making adjustments live with the plastic screwdriver would be ideal though. I have tried that before and it was not easy. I really feel that Baggs should have just included a small knob to turn.

I follow a musician who uses the imix system, which has the i-beam. I think he blends in more i-beam but it sounds very good. I think the i-beam sounds great, it's just not very feedback resistant.