The top has "some scratches".....

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by flagstaffcharli

Here's where I agree with you. As someone who buys beat-up guitars occasionally, I wouldn't look at this one. Zero feedback is a starting point. And while I think a guitar can come to that sort of condition through real use, I've got no evidence at all that THAT is what happened. This could have been in a closet being banged around with the vacuum cleaner. Did he humidify it if necessary? Does he even know enough about guitars to tell me something about playability? And with zero feedback, I've got nothing to go on.

My only point was that there are those of us who do beat the beans out of an instrument using it for real work — traveling, running from place to place, playing outdoors, having to switch instruments very quickly, etc.., It's OK with me that you don't put any marks on your guitars. Really. But I do, and there are legitimate reasons for it. It's not that I am irresponsible, disrespectful, or clueless. It's just that I have a job to do, and the music and the experience at the time are infinitely more important to me than keeping the instrument in mint condition. I believe that answers the question about how a guitar might reach that condition. Just offering a different perspective. YMMV and will.

I see where Chris Thile mods his priceless Loar-era mandolins. A lot of people — especially some collectors over on the Mandolin Cafe — gasp in horror. However, none of those folks likely plays the instruments as well as Chris, and Chris was the one to write the checks for those instruments. They belong to him.

We're all different. It's OK by me.

Read post number 9 charli.....that's all I was saying originally. You are turning it into much more than it needs to be.

Bottom line is I'm not well off enough to take expensive belongings and allow them to get beat up (thus losing tons of value) I've learned to take great care of everything I own regardless of the use.

That's just me.

Again, the point I was making was that it's more than "some scratches" to me.

[flagstaffcharli]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Read post number 9 charli.....that's all I was saying originally. You are turning it into much more than it needs to be.

Bottom line is I'm not well off enough to take expensive belongings and allow them to get beat up (thus losing tons of value) I've learned to take great care of everything I own regardless of the use.

That's just me.

Again, the point I was making was that it's more than "some scratches" to me.

It isn't a big deal. As I said twice already, it's ok by me. I just have a different perspective and I shared it. You asked how a guitar could get that beat-up and you offered that it doesn't have to be that way. I simply pointed to my own differing experience and point-of-view. It's all good by me. Cheers,

[bohemian]

How do you know it's French Polish

There is no such person as Antonio Loriente.

It's a factory guitar.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by bohemian

How do you know it's French Polish

There is no such person as Antonio Loriente.

It's a factory guitar.

T.F.P. on the label means top french polish - A.F'P. means all french polish

Never said there was an Antonio Loriente - word on the streets is the Loriente's are built by the Alhambra shops top builders, I believe. For a long time it wasn't known where they came from.

[toomanyknots]

Originally Posted by fitness1

T.F.P. on the label means top french polish - A.F'P. means all french polish

Never said there was an Antonio Loriente - word on the streets is the Loriente's are built by the Alhambra shops top builders, I believe. For a long time it wasn't known where they came from.

Really? I know Tim Miklaucic has been pretty open publically about the loriente line of guitars. I believe they are "over seen" by a luthier, and built by spanish workers (or luthiers, what have you), but I never knew which shop they were built. According to Tim, they were designed from the bottom up. Here is a thread with Tim talking about the loriente line:

http://www.guitarsalon.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11344

And yes I saw that guitar, I think it is ridiculous to do that to a good classical guitar. It you are going to bang on a soft cedar top, for the love of it, at least put a golpeador on it. That looks more like playing, or rather strumming hard with a pick (which is ridiculous to do on a 3000 classical guitar), than rasgueados or strumming with your hand. If it is just rasqueados or strumming by hand, it is very sloppy and careless. But, hey, I ain't gonna tell nobody what to do with their own property. I still think it is ridiculous though, .

EDIT: Ya, it looked like a great deal, and then I saw that picture, and instantly was just like "Awww man...." lol

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by toomanyknots

Really? I know Tim Miklaucic has been pretty open publically about the loriente line of guitars. I believe they are "over seen" by a luthier, and built by spanish workers (or luthiers, what have you), but I never knew which shop they were built. According to Tim, they were designed from the bottom up. Here is a thread with Tim talking about the loriente line:

http://www.guitarsalon.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11344

And yes I saw that guitar, I think it is ridiculous to do that to a good classical guitar. It you are going to bang on a soft cedar top, for the love of it, at least put a golpeador on it. That looks more like playing, or rather strumming hard with a pick (which is ridiculous to do on a 3000 classical guitar), than rasgueados or strumming with your hand. If it is just rasqueados or strumming by hand, it is very sloppy and careless. But, hey, I ain't gonna tell nobody what to do with their own property. I still think it is ridiculous though, .

EDIT: Ya, it looked like a great deal, and then I saw that picture, and instantly was just like "Awww man...." lol

Yes - designed by a consortium of luthiers, bit I'm pretty sure just recently it's come out that they are coming out of the Alhambra shop. Could be wrong....

[toomanyknots]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Yes - designed by a consortium of luthiers, bit I'm pretty sure just recently it's come out that they are coming out of the Alhambra shop. Could be wrong....

Man, ahlambra makes some nice guitars! Supposedly they make the higher end ramirez student (e line) of guitars, and if true like you say, the loriente line, not to mention their own guitars, which I have read nothing but great things about. I guess I don't have a problem with that, . Can I ask you where you got that bit of info from?

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by toomanyknots

Man, ahlambra makes some nice guitars! Supposedly they make the higher end ramirez student (e line) of guitars, and if true like you say, the loriente line, not to mention their own guitars, which I have read nothing but great things about. I guess I don't have a problem with that, . Can I ask you where you got that bit of info from?

I honestly can't remember, but it seems like it might have come up on the GSI forum. That was some time ago. It seem they are trying to appear to be a Cordoba product now, but who knows exactly which shop they are coming out of!

The Alhambra Luthier guitars are very nice.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by toomanyknots

And yes I saw that guitar, I think it is ridiculous to do that to a good classical guitar. It you are going to bang on a soft cedar top, for the love of it, at least put a golpeador on it. That looks more like playing, or rather strumming hard with a pick (which is ridiculous to do on a 3000 classical guitar), than rasgueados or strumming with your hand. If it is just rasqueados or strumming by hand, it is very sloppy and careless. But, hey, I ain't gonna tell nobody what to do with their own property. I still think it is ridiculous though, .

EDIT: Ya, it looked like a great deal, and then I saw that picture, and instantly was just like "Awww man...." lol

I use a plectrum on my Breedlove Masterclass Bossa Nova nylon string in my solo acoustic flamenco-jazz gig. Granted, I'm not so ham-handed that you see pick scratches on it. But it suits my purposes at this time to use a pick instead of my fingernails. Years ago, I majored in classical guitar performance in a program run by Chris Parkening and used to play traditional classical repetoire at recitals, churches and weddings (and dabbled in traditional flamenco as well).

At any rate... one man's "ridiculous" is another's bread and butter.

[dwalton]

Originally Posted by Red_Label

I use a plectrum on my Breedlove Masterclass Bossa Nova nylon string in my solo acoustic flamenco-jazz gig. Granted, I'm not so ham-handed that you see pick scratches on it. But it suits my purposes at this time to use a pick instead of my fingernails. Years ago, I majored in classical guitar performance in a program run by Chris Parkening and used to play traditional classical repetoire at recitals, churches and weddings (and dabbled in traditional flamenco as well).

At any rate... one man's "ridiculous" is another's bread and butter.

For what it's worth - great stuff on your website! I really enjoyed listening.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by dwalton

For what it's worth - great stuff on your website! I really enjoyed listening.

Thank you VERY much!!! You've made my day.

[toomanyknots]

Originally Posted by Red_Label

At any rate... one man's "ridiculous" is another's bread and butter.

True, . Maybe instead of saying playing with a pick, I should of said assaulting with a pick, lol. I see this happening alot with brand new cedar classical guitars in guitar center alot of the time lately. I asked the seller what exactly all the scratches and dents came from, if he played with a pick, flamenco technique, taps, rasqueados, etc, just out of curiosity.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by toomanyknots

True, . Maybe instead of saying playing with a pick, I should of said assaulting with a pick, lol. I see this happening alot with brand new cedar classical guitars in guitar center alot of the time lately. I asked the seller what exactly all the scratches and dents came from, if he played with a pick, flamenco technique, taps, rasqueados, etc, just out of curiosity.

Gotchya. And I do agree with that. Basically, you're saying that some dood going all Pete Townsend with a fine nylon string classical is silly.

[toomanyknots]

The seller replied to my question today. I knew it was a pick, . Here is a partial quote from the sellers reply:

"One of my budies was jamming out on it with a pick, it scratches really easily I don't know if it's from the finish they put on it or what. But it looks likes someone pushed there nail into it at some point that is the worst scratch on it."

[scottishrogue]

WOW!!! When I saw the photo, I groaned out loud!

The person that made those "marks" should be IN JAIL!!! That's how it starts...one or two tiny scratches, but it escalates!

While those gouges don't affect the sound, that guitar is psychologically damaged!!! What did that guitar ever do to deserve that kind of treatment?

I use a pick, and I have NEVER, EVER needed to attack with the force necessary to create that kind of damage.

A few weeks ago, I was watching the Zack Brown Band on the Jimmy Kimmel Show, and noticed he also was playing a classical guitar. I've ranted about this before, but someone has to speak up, if we want things to ever change. Anyway, back to my story. What really amazed me about Zack's performance is that his bridge was covered with "Duck" tape...RED!!! It seemed to be there because of bridge lift. I also noticed that he was using ball-end strings (probably steel), and the front of his guitar was so covered with deep gouges, where there would normally be a pick guard, it was just bare wood!!! Needless to say, his attack was ferocious!!!

I thought to myself, he should paint a sign on his forehead saying "I'm a big MORON!!!" He doesn't seem to know that when others see how he performs, they will think it's ok to destroy their guitar that way. Steel strings on a classical bridge is NOT ACCEPTABLE, and neither are DEEP GOUGES in the top. Is the guy trying to outdo Willie Nelson for ugliest guitar in the world?

I have several classical guitars, and have NEVER needed a pick for projection. If you want more projection, INSTALL A PICKUP and plug the thing into an amp!!! REPORT ABUSE!!!

Ok, I feel much better now.

Glen