Traveling with a guitar, United.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by 619TF

No, no it's not. You paid for a seat and 2 carry ons just like everyone else. You're ENTITLED to the space IF you get there early enough. Bonus is preventing potential damage to an instrument worth more than what most people have in their carry ons. Selfish? Hardly.

Any guitar that I own is much larger than the carry on luggage permitted on most planes. Sometimes I use a guitar gig bag as my carry on luggage and check in a bigger bag, this seems fair to me and is generally accepted by the airlines.
I have done a lot of international travel with a guitar and never had a serious problem just by being considerate. I think that making demands and claiming to be "ENTITLED" is just asking for trouble.

[619TF]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

Any guitar that I own is much larger than the carry on luggage permitted on most planes. Sometimes I use a guitar gig bag as my carry on luggage and check in a bigger bag, this seems fair to me and is generally accepted by the airlines.
I have done a lot of international travel with a guitar and never had a serious problem just by being considerate. I think that making demands and claiming to be "ENTITLED" is just asking for trouble.

Not a claim but a benefit granted to USA airline travelers by Congress. "Entitled" doesn't imply being nasty about it - simply assertive in the face of illegal negativity. There simply isn't another word that expresses what you have been gifted here. Take it or leave it, love it or leave it but accept the reality that simply is.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

Any guitar that I own is much larger than the carry on luggage permitted on most planes.

I have a Martin Dreadnought in a Gator TSA travel case, and it is allowed on and fits in the overhead bins of most planes. How big are your guitars?

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

I have a Martin Dreadnought in a Gator TSA travel case, and it is allowed on and fits in the overhead bins of most planes. How big are your guitars?

All I can say is, the laws must be different in the USA. To the best of my knowledge elsewhere in the world, it is at the discretion of the flight crew what is carried in the cabin.

[emtsteve]

I haven't read the actual language in the law, but I suspect it says something along the lines of the instrument must be allowed if there is room. And there's the catch - if there is room will be at the determination of the crew, not you. Engaging in a discussion/argument and waving printed rules while a plane is loading does nothing but aggravate the flight crew and all the other passengers. Additionally, IIRC you are allowed one carry-on and one personal item (which must fit under the seat), not 2 carry-ons.

To repeat, I have NEVER had an issue with my GS Mini and a smile.

[619TF]

Originally Posted by Malcolm Kindnes

All I can say is, the laws must be different in the USA. To the best of my knowledge elsewhere in the world, it is at the discretion of the flight crew what is carried in the cabin.

Yes, this discussion is regarding the laws of the United States of America as they relate to instruments as carry ons for domestic flights.

Originally Posted by emtsteve

I haven't read the actual language in the law, but I suspect it says something along the lines of the instrument must be allowed if there is room. And there's the catch - if there is room will be at the determination of the crew, not you. Engaging in a discussion/argument and waving printed rules while a plane is loading does nothing but aggravate the flight crew and all the other passengers. Additionally, IIRC you are allowed one carry-on and one personal item (which must fit under the seat), not 2 carry-ons.

To repeat, I have NEVER had an issue with my GS Mini and a smile.

Yes, if there's room at the time you board. That's not usually a crew call and certainly not the gate attendants to make. This is why it's important to board early. Even if it's a packed flight with tons of people with carry ons if you're early and you find a spot it's yours under the USA law. Additionally, most USA airlines permit TWO carry ons. One must fit under the seat (so obviously not the guitar) but if the other fits into overhead or crew closet then that's where they go and you're allowed. Failure to engage in a discussion with an uncooperative agent is waiving your rights under the law. It's all well and good to claim that having that discussion is "aggravating" to others but I suppose there's people who never question illegal searches or anything else illegally done to them by a person seemingly with authority either. If it's in your rights to carry it on (which it is per Congressional action) then you should stand up for your rights and not let someone with a power trip spoil your journey (and make you worry about your instrument).

[Graylocks]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

I have a Martin Dreadnought in a Gator TSA travel case, and it is allowed on and fits in the overhead bins of most planes. How big are your guitars?

Most often I carried on a Santa Cruz OM Grand in its Ameritage case. The last flight I took was on Delta and carried on a Goodall Jumbo in a Hiscox case.

Boarding early is KEY along with being polite. I keep my 2nd allowed carry-on as low profile as possible; a very small, very lightly filled backpack.

[emtsteve]

Originally Posted by 619TF

...Yes, if there's room at the time you board. That's not usually a crew call and certainly not the gate attendants to make. This is why it's important to board early. Even if it's a packed flight with tons of people with carry ons if you're early and you find a spot it's yours under the USA law. Additionally, most USA airlines permit TWO carry ons. One must fit under the seat (so obviously not the guitar) but if the other fits into overhead or crew closet then that's where they go and you're allowed. Failure to engage in a discussion with an uncooperative agent is waiving your rights under the law. It's all well and good to claim that having that discussion is "aggravating" to others but I suppose there's people who never question illegal searches or anything else illegally done to them by a person seemingly with authority either. If it's in your rights to carry it on (which it is per Congressional action) then you should stand up for your rights and not let someone with a power trip spoil your journey (and make you worry about your instrument).

Questioning an illegal search and demanding carry on space on a plane are a long way apart as far as "rights" go. And me being nice and not demanding carry on space on a plane is me choosing to respect the flight crew and other passengers' need for space. I look forward to the day when some crazed musician is screaming "but the law is right here" while he and his guitar are being dragged off a plane by police, to the cheers of those around him.

[Malcolm Kindnes]

Originally Posted by emtsteve

Questioning an illegal search and demanding carry on space on a plane are a long way apart as far as "rights" go. And me being nice and not demanding carry is me choosing to respect the flight crew and other passengers' need for space. I look forward to the day when some crazed musician is screaming "but the law is right here" while he and his guitar are being dragged off a plane by police, to the cheers of those around him.

Good post, I completely agree.

[619TF]

Originally Posted by emtsteve

Questioning an illegal search and demanding carry on space on a plane are a long way apart as far as "rights" go. And me being nice and not demanding carry on space is me choosing to respect the flight crew and other passengers' need for space. I look forward to the day when some crazed musician is screaming "but the law is right here" while he and his guitar are being dragged off a plane by police, to the cheers of those around him.

Keep waiting. The difference is minimal under the law (something apparently not comprehended by some here). If you have been given a legal ability then you need to assert it when others are needlessly (note that important word here) trampling that given right/permission. I'm not saying be mean. I'm not saying be rude. I'm not saying you should rant and rave. All I'm saying is that the gate attendant is a nobody and if they attempt to meddle in your travel then call a supervisor who will no doubt put that attendant in their proper place. All this shouldn't take more than just a few minutes and 99 times out of 100 will lead to your bringing the guitar on board as the law permits (with good reason I might add). I understand respecting the flight crew. That's why I said be nice. I understand the other passenger's need for space as well. However, when you pay for the ticket you are allowed one or two carry ons. The fact that yours might be larger is inconsequential as you paid as much as the others did and are carrying on the same number of items. Yours just happens to be larger (but still within legal limits).
I'm sorry some people here are so willing to fold in the face of an intermeddling power mad employee who does not understand the law and has no respect for a passenger, their instruments or their legal rights. That's how these things disappear. Carrying a guitar on was a hard fought long legal battle. Why not also show respect those that did the work (and suffered before this was law) by standing up for your rights?

[emtsteve]

Originally Posted by 619TF

...The difference is minimal under the law (something apparently not comprehended by some here) ...

No it's not minimal. Freedom from illegal search and seizure is in the Bill of Rights, as one of the rights specifically spelled out as inalienable rights of man that government may not infringe upon. The right to carry a guitar on an airplane is much, much lower in significance. I agree that we should stand up against oppression and tyranny. This just doesn't rise to that in my opinion and is not a hill I'm willing to die on.

It's clear we don't agree - so be it.

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by dnf777

Gate-checked guitars get put in the luggage hold just like other checked bags. They are spared getting tossed on and off carts and trams, though....

What about at the destination?

I've travelled 7-8 times w guitar and always paid extra for earlier boarding. So far I've had my guitar in an overhead each time. Airlines IMHO have gotten tired of paying claims on fragile musical instruments and usually want to accommodate you if at all possible.

[619TF]

Originally Posted by emtsteve

No it's not minimal. Freedom from illegal search and seizure is in the Bill of Rights, as one of the rights specifically spelled out as inalienable rights of man that government may not infringe upon. The right to carry a guitar on an airplane is much, much lower in significance. I agree that we should stand up against oppression and tyranny. This just doesn't rise to that in my opinion and is not a hill I'm willing to die on.

It's clear we don't agree - so be it.

A legal right is a legal right. Yes, not one of the original 10 but then again that means all those other laws and rights are apparently less important to you than those 10. The importance and significance may indeed be different but still a right. Waiving any rights granted to you (even if you want to consider them merely "legal permissions") is a fools game.

[Graylocks]

Originally Posted by 619TF

The fact that yours might be larger is inconsequential as you paid as much as the others did and are carrying on the same number of items. Yours just happens to be larger (but still within legal limits).
.. Carrying a guitar on was a hard fought long legal battle.

What perplexes me about this thread are the posters who continually assert that carrying on a guitar is wrong because it is against the rules continue to completely ignore the fact that an exception to the rule is in place for instruments which was made by the people who crafted the rules in the first place. One part of The Rule is sacrosanct while the exception is completely missing from their radar.

[Acousticado]

Folks, a number of posts have been edited or deleted. To keep the thread from being closed, keep your posts “nice”.