Anyone gigged with a Lyric yet? Thoughts? - Page 2

Joseph Hanna · #16 06-05-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave

IF one is having to drastically alter the tone controls as illustrated above and mentioned by other posters, THAT is indicative of a pickup that is not optimal for that particular poster's use IMO.

But I've read this a few times now. IMO a decent pickup should be able to stay with the bass, mid & treble controls staying much closer to flat than as indicated in those wild swings above.

Bass almost off, treble at 10?!?!?! What's up with that?

Not good!

Like a K&K?? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black. I've got good ears. I mix audio here in Hollywood for a living and have for many years. I have a list of accomplishments to prove it. I don't often feel compelled (at least around here) to disclose any of that non-sense unless I'm really, REALLY wanting to make a sonic point, which I feel at this stage of my career I've earned the right.

Understandably and legitimately some folks aren't gonna have the where with all to understand what to do with the Lyric. It is after all a mic in a live scenario. It's not a walk in the park that I think many, many here would like it to be. It is not plug and play. Then again neither is a microphone on a live acoustic guitar. It's also just not gonna be for everyone. Just like (believe or not) K&K's are not for everyone. It is however an amazing acoustic guitar system that reproduces the sound of an acoustic guitar better than anything I've ever heard and once understood takes no more (probably less) eq than a K&K.

To add to this scenario many who have be-cried for years they want a "just like my guitar only louder" have discovered that when they actually do get something fairly close it's not what they're now accustom to. "I need more bass" is the standard reply but truth be told the Lyric provide almost exactly the same bass response as my guitars.

I tried a K&K for a weekend. It was fine. It still however sounded VERY much like a pickup and talk about needing drastic eq..... I decided it wouldn't work for me. From that point it didn't make any sense to continue jumping into K&K discussions suggesting it's a bad choice or something was better.

I think everyone here knows the guys that are staunchly on the K&K bandwagon. It's a great system and if you dig it I think that's a victory. It does get tiresome hearing negative comments from that particular gallery.

The Lyric is (for me) the most natural sounding representation of an acoustic guitar pickup system I've yet to hear. No one should think it's plug and play. It takes work and understanding to make it shine.

Declaring it "not good" unless you've been out gigging with it for awhile is probably somewhat unfair.

2Matchless · #17 06-05-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydave

IF one is having to drastically alter the tone controls as illustrated above and mentioned by other posters, THAT is indicative of a pickup that is not optimal for that particular poster's use IMO.

But I've read this a few times now. IMO a decent pickup should be able to stay with the bass, mid & treble controls staying much closer to flat than as indicated in those wild swings above.

Bass almost off, treble at 10?!?!?! What's up with that?

Not good!

This would be clock settings. But yes the bass is low, and the midrange is weird no matter what. I might be able to salvage it still, we'll see. I don't care where tone controls sit as long as it sounds great (good is not acceptable).

cary · #18 06-05-2013, 09:54 AM

2Matchless, I wrote an extensive post over on the UMGF about this, but long-story short -- my Lyric required two bands of parametric EQ in the midrange to really shine, but BOY DOES IT SHINE.

I ended up purchasing a Baggs Venue to make this easier, because the BASS/MID/TREBLE controls on my amp didn't give enough control of the Mids.

Here's a photo of my current settings. To me, they sound phenomenal. All of my other guitars have K&Ks, and I still dig that system, but someday I will be moving each of them to the Lyric. It just sounds amazing.

Vancebo · #19 06-05-2013, 10:08 AM

Wow Cary, I would almost believe you took a picture of my settings. I'm playing through a Taylor GS Coco/Adi and maybe the only difference is that I would be cutting bit more in the 180hz range and a bit less in the 600Hz.

Vancebo · #20 06-05-2013, 10:13 AM

BTW, I always use the notch filter to cut out any body cavity resonance. What I do is turn up the volume and tap pretty firmly on the sound board around the bridge area and on the bridge. I then sweep through the frequencies until the rumble disappears a bit. That always seems to happen just at the first line to the left of the 140Hz. That clears things up even more. That was info from the Pendulum SPS-1 manual that always seemed to work for me.

cary · #21 06-05-2013, 10:37 AM

I discovered the exact same thing while attempting to produce feedback. I haven't gigged with mine yet, but I did some experimenting, and that's exactly where the notch filter landed. It really didn't have any appreciable negative effect on tone either, from what I could gather in my living room -- I will have to listen more and see if it actually makes it clearer.

MaurysMusic · #22 06-05-2013, 10:55 AM

The problem I see with the Lyric (MY .02 and worth almost half as much) is that its high-midrange frequency funk requires access to a preamp with a sweepable midrange (add $200 or more to the situation now) and even then, some pleasing low-mids are often scooped away as well. In this scenario, we're at $400 or higher and I honestly feel that the K&K sounds a little better (not more natural but better) with moderate treble EQ at any/all generic mixing board/amp. Jump to $279 and the Trance Audio Amulet M eats all the other pickups for lunch, again with some EQ -but the necessary EQ is found on every mixer and amp. Also, I'll admit most players would have a tech install the Amulet, so you can add $100ish and realistically you're at $379... but still cheaper than a Lyric plus preamp.

If the Lyric's mids were beautiful when set flat, OR could be tamed by any generic midrange dial, we'd be almost unanimously crowing it champion of $200 pickups, no doubt in my mind.

These are my opinions from recording and playing lots of live gigs. This report is not any more valid or important than everyone else's findings at all ... they are just my opinions and I'm happy to see lots of people love the Lyric. I'm not surprised at all to see that its very popular. Its just not for me, and I've stated why.

Doubleneck · #23 06-05-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cary

Yeah, that is the exact opposite of my experience with the Lyric so far -- I'm running Bass and Treble completely flat, but doing some tweaks in the mid-range.

Mine sounds fantastic. I'm almost starting to wonder if Baggs is having production problems... people either seem to be getting phenomenal sound, or terrible sound. wtf?

I would agree my experience is bass and Treble flat and tweaks down on the mids. If anything on the bass it is up. I think there is just something wrong above. Below is a review of a Martin D28 into a Fishman PA. The sound here is what I would expect. We have seen some defective units reported here.

http://youtu.be/n_Ocu14n2P8

I don't disagree with the observations from Maury Music but I think the reality is most players that are into acoustic guitars have a good preamp, I certainly did when I bought the Lyric. The Lyric is a five minute no glue install. Most of all you get a much more acoustic feel of a microphone. I would bet for the vast majority of players it will be as close to playing through a microphone as they will get right now. Perfect no, but certainly worth the EQ struggles for some. (My EQ was not that difficult and admittedly I as not as picky as most) Also this is a microphone and as such reflects your guitar and your amp, that can make it very different for different setups I suspect.

MaurysMusic · #24 06-05-2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

I would agree my experience is bass and Treble flat and tweaks down on the mids. If anything on the bass it is up. I think there is just something wrong above. Below is a review of a Martin D28 into a Fishman PA. The sound here is what I would expect. We have seen some defective units reported here.

http://youtu.be/n_Ocu14n2P8

I don't disagree with the observations from Maury Music but I think the reality is most players that are into acoustic guitars have a good preamp, I certainly did when I bought the Lyric. The Lyric is a five minute no glue install. Most of all you get a much more acoustic feel of a microphone. I would bet for the vast majority of players it will be as close to playing through a microphone as they will get right now. Perfect no, but certainly worth the EQ struggles for some. (My EQ was not that difficult) Also this is a microphone and as such reflects your guitar and your amp, that can make it very different for different setups I suspect.

Well said. Those who already have a preamp OR don't mind the Lyric's midrange will have no issue, and that's worth mentioning for sure.

cary · #25 06-05-2013, 12:05 PM

While I prefer the Lyric, I do think the K&K is more forgiving. The K&K seems to compress and smooth things out in the way that a microphone won't.

2Matchless · #26 06-05-2013, 12:09 PM

I have a Radial PZ-Pre but it doesn't have a sweepable eq, otherwise I like it. I have heard the Lyric needs to be flush with the guitar. Not sure how this is possible though because the pads elevate it slightly, besides I think the mic is on the front not the bottom.

Anyone know for sure?

Doubleneck · #27 06-05-2013, 12:12 PM

The mic is aimed at the soundboard and is elevated 3 mm, above it, I believe. That is the "pressure zone" the area right above a flat surface.

2Matchless · #28 06-05-2013, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

The mic is aimed at the soundboard and is elevated 3 mm, above it, I believe. That is the "pressure zone" the area right above a flat surface.

If you look at it from the side, the plastic piece is not touching the guitar, it rides above it, at least mine does. I wonder if I'm getting some blurring because the sides are open. Time to call LR Baggs I think.

Doubleneck · #29 06-05-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cary

2Matchless, I wrote an extensive post over on the UMGF about this, but long-story short -- my Lyric required two bands of parametric EQ in the midrange to really shine, but BOY DOES IT SHINE.

I ended up purchasing a Baggs Venue to make this easier, because the BASS/MID/TREBLE controls on my amp didn't give enough control of the Mids.

Here's a photo of my current settings. To me, they sound phenomenal. All of my other guitars have K&Ks, and I still dig that system, but someday I will be moving each of them to the Lyric. It just sounds amazing.

Going to use my Dtar Equinox and try to set it to what you have done with you Venue. Three bands of parmetric with it. Thanks. Steve

cary · #30 06-05-2013, 12:33 PM

Steve, my Lyric is installed in a Martin dread -- hopefully these settings will get you in the ballpark for whatever guitar you are using, but I read one response from a guy who has his Lyric in a Jumbo, and his EQ settings seemed to be quite different from mine.

Either way, hopefully these get you to within striking distance