Live Recording Question

[TheJackal]

I set up a digital recorder out among the crowd at our last gig. I used a blue yeti pro condenser microphone set in stereo mode and recorded two channels only.

The playback showed poor balance with instrumentation too loud compared to vocals.

The lead player (who usually has a good sense about playing at lower volumes) told me that he only listed to parts of a couple of songs and couldn't stand any more of it. It seemed that we were on the same page until I followed up with him referencing some recordings where at any time, either vocals are prominent and instrumentation is supporting in the background. During lead parts, only the instrument playing lead is prominent with everything supporting in the background.

His response was, in effect, "you can't record that way and tell what it sounded like. Every instrument has to have a separate channel to get recordings with levels that way." OK, I get that for a studio recording but my view is that the quality of, and placement of the microphones in the crowd was a reasonable representation of what the crowd was hearing.

I asked my wife for her opinion and as an audience member, her assessment was similar to mine. I realize that unless you hear it, any opinion is absent hearing the recording. (To address that, I may put some clips together and post to this thread),

Here's the question. In your opinion, does a quality microphone placed out among the audience capture a reasonable recording of what they were hearing?
Or, is the lead player correct, you can't tell what it sounded like when you set up that way.

Thanks for any insights or opinions.

[Wyllys]

Try this:

Take the recorder and mic to someone elses gig, record them from your listening position then compare your impressions of live listening to the recording. Let it sit "in the can" overnight to get some temporal objectivity. See what you think...but remember: recording is like playing. The longer you've been practicing, the better your recording/playing should be.

[Chriscom]

His response was, in effect, "you can't record that way and tell what it sounded like. Every instrument has to have a separate channel to get recordings with levels that way." OK, I get that for a studio recording but my view is that the quality of, and placement of the microphones in the crowd was a reasonable representation of what the crowd was hearing.


Would an audience member sitting where you placed the mic be fed--and only fed--a separate channel for each instrument and vocal? I don't think so! They'd hear whatever is flying through the air at that position.

If the purpose was to get a feel for what you sound like to the audience, you got a fair approximation. If your goal was to record Live at Joe's for distribution then yeah, you want separate channels for everything. Live concert albums aren't recorded (just) off mics placed in the audience. Only some bootlegs lol.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

His response was, in effect, "you can't record that way and tell what it sounded like. Every instrument has to have a separate channel to get recordings with levels that way." OK, I get that for a studio recording but my view is that the quality of, and placement of the microphones in the crowd was a reasonable representation of what the crowd was hearing.


Would an audience member sitting where you placed the mic be fed--and only fed--a separate channel for each instrument and vocal? I don't think so! They'd hear whatever is flying through the air at that position.

If the purpose was to get a feel for what you sound like to the audience, you got a fair approximation. If your goal was to record Live at Joe's for distribution then yeah, you want separate channels for everything. Live concert albums aren't recorded (just) off mics placed in the audience. Only some bootlegs lol.

The goal was to get a feel for what the audience was hearing so I'm standing by my opinion that the mic was capturing essentially what the crowd was hearing.
Thanks for your thoughts.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by TheJackal

The playback showed poor balance with instrumentation too loud compared to vocals.

Thanks for any insights or opinions.

My estimate would be instruments too loud. Vocals not loud enough. It isn't a perfect representation but it is close and you should be informed by it.

And FWIW, this happens in epidemic proportions. Especially with situations where the instruments are not in the house mix and sound is being provide by individual amplification on the stage.

hunter

[RustyAxe]

I would expect to hear a reasonable (if imperfect) approximation of what the listeners in the room were hearing. Your band mates are in denial. I play in a few different bands, and do some amateur recording (produced a CD last year with a singer/songwriter friend, and have done several live recordings that were used for CDs, EPs, and such). Rule #1 ... get it right in the room. Post production editing is fine, but it can't cover up a poor performance.

[TheJackal]

Thanks for the comments and insights. I sliced a little bit from a bunch of songs from the recording. There are no effects at all in the recording. There is some silence between the slices. The venue was outdoors so there are some ambient sounds (cars, motorcycles, etc.) Appreciate any observations that you might share. Point of information, the "fiddle" player is primarily a classical player who among lots of other places has played solo at Carnegie Hall.

[FrankHudson]

Sorry, pressed for time, but I listened to a few snippets of five or six cuts.

Sounds like some bootlegs, and not nearly as bad as I expected from your description. I could hear the vocals, and I've listened to lots of bands in my punk days were you'd have a hard time making out the words in the vocals due to aggressive instrumentalists from a single source audience tape. Would I have mixed it like that with a multitrack mix? No, but for the purposes of listening later to see what worked and didn't work, I'd think it'd serve.

You could probably do some stuff with EQ and "mastering-style" multiband compression to spruce it up if you were (or wanted to become) facile with those tools--but what I'd want from a quick and dirty recording like that is some sense of is the groove there, are the vocals communicating, is someone out of tune or missing the changes, is the set list in effective order, that sort of thing, and an audience recording like yours can do that.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

Sorry, pressed for time, but I listened to a few snippets of five or six cuts.

Sounds like some bootlegs, and not nearly as bad as I expected from your description. I could hear the vocals, and I've listened to lots of bands in my punk days were you'd have a hard time making out the words in the vocals due to aggressive instrumentalists from a single source audience tape. Would I have mixed it like that with a multitrack mix? No, but for the purposes of listening later to see what worked and didn't work, I'd think it'd serve.

You could probably do some stuff with EQ and "mastering-style" multiband compression to spruce it up if you were (or wanted to become) facile with those tools--but what I'd want from a quick and dirty recording like that is some sense of is the groove there, are the vocals communicating, is someone out of tune or missing the changes, is the set list in effective order, that sort of thing, and an audience recording like yours can do that.

It's funny how time changes things. When I was putting the pieces together to post to this thread, I found that things were better than I had recalled when I was originally recording it.

The intent of the recording was, mainly, to get a sense of what the audience was hearing and I think it captured that. Secondly, was to listen for things where we could improve and I think there's enough there to do that. The main thing I notice is that I would prefer more space and less clutter, i.e., fewer notes. Overall, however, in listening to the recording again, there were parts that were amazing (the violin player is over the top incredible.) He's a recently naturalized citizen and is totally proud of playing "Americana" music. I think we show potential to deliver some good music.

Thanks for the insights.