Australian Blackwood

[larren]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

I wouldn't have known to pronounce the second syllable as "gee" instead of "juh," so thank you for that. I owe you, so in case you ever need help with colorful Missouri Ozark hillbilly expressions, let me know.

I can teach you how to whittle and spit, too!


whm

Thanks Wade, whittlin' and spittin' sounds good. Actually, you were on the ball with jah! Some say "jah", some say "gee", depends what region/state of Australia you come from. In fact most of us talk fast and like to shorten things as much as we can, so even dropping the second syllable is normal, as in mudge-ra-bah

I played in a band for a while with a Virginian who grew up in North Carolina, and picked up some southern expressions from him.......taught him a bit of our Aussie lingo as well

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Well, it may be all Australian Blackwood but there is Tasmanian Blackwood and there is TASMANIAN BLACKWOOD.


My 1993 Lowden S35 Tasmanian Blackwood/Cedar with the Tasmanian Blackwood hand harvested by George Lowden in the deep, deep forest of a secret location in Tasmania on a cold windswept full moon at midnight, whereas my Maton's Blackwood is probably some kind of roadkill....

BluesKing777.

Thank you for that. It made my morning!

[Misifus]

When I was first becoming acquainted with Jamie Kinscherff's guitars, he had just completed one with Australian Blackwood b/s and Adirondack top. At the time, I wasn't conversant enough with his instruments to make any distinction between them, the blackwood model High Noon was stunning in both sound and appearance.

[krisls]

Almost by accident in a sense both my acoustic guitars are Tassie Blackwood w' Sitka.

The first, which is about to celebrate its 21st birthday, is a lovely custom built 'Martin' style 000 made by one of our most respected luthiers Gerard Gilet. It is a lovely soft 'honey' coloured guitar, the back and sides lightly figured compared to some and the top 'honey' darkened with time.

Mine is a cutaway and I had input into the curve and shape so am very happy. Initially however I was going with Mahogany. Didn't know not what of about Blackwood really 21 years ago. But after discussions and tossing thoughts back and forth this is what I went with and I am not disappointed at all. Rich and clear and rings beautifully. Not as deep or punchy as Rosewood perhaps, but I love it.

My second is a Maton 808c Nashville, that's the brown burst looking one w' a matte finish, again Blackwood and Spruce.

Now I will in no way claim these two sound the same. Age for one, quality of wood selection and detail on the custom are far greater than the Maton. It is no slouch but acoustically does not match the Gilet. Then it is not meant to really. It is what it is, a very fine stage guitar. Maton go with locally sourced sustainable woods, which I applaud.

Taylor have a similar philosphy and I will admit to quietly lusting after a 12 fret 612ce. Hah.. not Blackwood... oh and my great one that got away, was a Sitka over Braz Rosewood 000 cutaway made by another local guy almost 30 years ago now. I envy whoever owns that one. Could not afford it at the time..sigh....

They's all wood and strings.... but......

Kris

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

Australian Blackwood, Tasmanian Blackwood and Acacia Blackwood are the same species (Acacia melanoxylon). I have a large bodied Oz' Blackwood SJ with an Adirondack (Red) Spruce top. I really like it as a tonewood that falls sonically between mahogany and rosewood in terms of the nature of its contribution (i.e. The fast attack and strong mids of mahogany with a bit more overtones like a rosewood).

That looks so, so nice. Wow.

[tdq]

I recently visited a guitar store in Adelaide. Cole Clarke (and Maton) have a few different models but make them with all sorts of wood combinations. In the past I've like the Angel, and they had five of them, with various wood combos. I tried them all and didn't really like any of them until I played the Blackwood b/s and Bunya top - I immediately took to it. There's another Aussie timber for you.

I found this for those interested in Aussie timbers.
https://guitartimbers.com/timbers/

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by tdq

I recently visited a guitar store in Adelaide. Cole Clarke (and Maton) have a few different models but make them with all sorts of wood combinations. In the past I've like the Angel, and they had five of them, with various wood combos. I tried them all and didn't really like any of them until I played the Blackwood b/s and Bunya top - I immediately took to it. There's another Aussie timber for you.

I found this for those interested in Aussie timbers.
https://guitartimbers.com/timbers/

I had the use of a Cole Clark Angel for about a month that had Queensland maple back and sides and a bunya top. It was a terrific-sounding guitar, especially when plugged in.


whm

[Jim]

This is yet another example of the problem of using common names for woods. Most wood species have many common names depending on where you live or what a wood broker thinks at that moment will get him the highest profit. If one cares about what wood is used on a particular guitar one needs to find out the botanical name, which in this case is Acacia melanoxylon. Acacia is the Genus and melanoxylon is the species. This particular wood is related to what is commonly called Hawaiian Koa. The botanical name for that is Acacia koa. Of the approximately 1,300 species of Acacia, the only two I am familiar with being used in guitars are the species koa and melanoxylon. In my opinion they have similarities, though koa seems to be more golden to orangish in color and melanoxylon seems to tend more towards slight lighter and browner shades. In tone I think they are similar but different with koa being a bit more unique and piano-like with melanoxylon being denser and going slightly more towards the rosewoody tones. Both are fantastic woods, but koa is close to being endangered and so very rare while melanoxylon seems to be more plentiful.

[Wade Hampton]

There’s also an acacia that grows in the continental United States that’s sometimes called “California koa.” My understanding is that it’s an introduced species, but I don’t know much more about than that. It’s not in common use as a tonewood, so far as I’m aware, but it has been used for guitar-building.

There’s also an acacia that’s being used by a number of ukulele companies, and occasionally for guitars. Again, I don’t know the exact species or whether it’s the same thing as so-called California koa. But it seems to be getting used a lot for factory-made ukuleles these days.

I, for one, would really appreciate if anyone with more detailed knowledge of the acacias in question could tell us more about them.


Wade Hampton Miller

[colins]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

PS: I found this list of names for the tree on the Wikipedia page that BluesKing linked us to:

"Acacia melanoxylon, commonly known as the Australian blackwood, is an Acacia species native in South eastern Australia. The species is also known as Blackwood, hickory, mudgerabah, Tasmanian blackwood, or blackwood acacia."

That's it - I'm not going to call it Australian or Tasmanian blackwood anymore, from now on it's "mudgerabah" so far as I'm concerned!

whm

We have lots of cool tree names, Wade. Another acacia then gets some use in guitars here is Acacia cambagie – its common name is Gidgee (also called stinking gidgee as it can smell like boiled cabbage!).

And I’m particularly fond of the binding on my Williams – it’s from a tree called Old Man Wodjil.

[iim7V7IM7]

Wade, I know that Bruce Sexauer has built a number of instruments from some Acacia that he harvested in Sausalito. Perhaps when he returns from The Vancouver Guitar Festival, he will chime in?

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

There’s also an acacia that grows in the continental United States that’s sometimes called “California koa.” My understanding is that it’s an introduced species, but I don’t know much more about than that. It’s not in common use as a tonewood, so far as I’m aware, but it has been used for guitar-building.

There’s also an acacia that’s being used by a number of ukulele companies, and occasionally for guitars. Again, I don’t know the exact species or whether it’s the same thing as so-called California koa. But it seems to be getting used a lot for factory-made ukuleles these days.

I, for one, would really appreciate if anyone with more detailed knowledge of the acacias in question could tell us more about them.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Mycroft]

Bruce may have used a California grown Blackwood (melanoxylon) of which many were planted in the Bay Area region going back 100-150 years ago. Another common Australian tree in California is a Blue Gum tree. (Eucalyptus) My paternal grandmother had a Blackwood tree in her front yard in Santa Rosa when I was a child. (Both are now considered as invasives. The trees, not the Grandmother)

As it happens, I have two guitars backed with Australian Blackwood. (as already noted, Australian and Tasmanian Blackwoods are of the same species. Marketeers will often look for the most exotic-sounding name that they can come up with, to make their wares more desirable. Is "German" spruce a better topwood than "Carpathian" or "Swiss" or whatever. They are all the same species. I have a guitar built with "Italian" spruce, which is called that because the builder bought it when he was in Italy.

However, as Colins notes, Tasmania is the furthest south of its range, and posits a positive effect. Slower growth resulting in more stiffness, perhaps. What differences may exist in Red Spruce, between trees from the southern, warmest end of its range in the Carolinas and the wood harvested in Nova Scotia? Blackwoods cousin Koa is very much a tropical wood, so the argument that the more southerly grown Blackwood is "better" is not necessarily a given. Of course, Koa also grows from near sea level up to 7500 ft, so one has to wonder if what altitude a tree grows at has an effect on the quality of the wood as well.

Winemakers talk a lot about the effects of what is termed "terroir" on the grapes from a specific location. While originally translated as "soil" or "earth," I've talked with people (both about wine and guitars) who feel that it is even better to expand the term to think of the micro-clime of a specific location, along with the characteristic of the soil itself. Ph of the soil. Amount of organic matter. Its depth. Moisture. Did the seed fall on a ridge, or in a gully? Near or father from a water source. Shelter or exposure to wind. Exposure to sun. A plant well-shaded by other larger plants may grow more slowly than one with full exposure, resulting in stiffer wood (an effect being found in tree-farmed woods as opposed to old growth) Trees subject to a constant stiff wind may respond by growing with stiffer wood in response. Trees growing on a steep hillside may be stiffer on the downhill side, resulting in differing width between rings. Trees not only may adapt to their specific micro-clime, but trees may pass on some of those characteristics over generations. A Red Spruce adapted over millennia for life in the Carolina Smokies may grow subtly differently to reflect that environment than a tree of the same species whose family -tree- is in the Adirondacks.

"Different" is not automatically "better or worse" when it comes to building musical instruments. Or it might be.

What was the question? Or, right. Experience and thoughts on guitars built with Australian Blackwood. As noted, I have two, and played a quite a few more. Similarly to Athens, I have a Webber Small Jumbo with Blackwood back and sides under Englemann. Now how much of the tonal quality and responsiveness goes to the top, bracing and builder, I could not say. It does have the characteristic dryness and clarity of David Webbers guitars, and I've played enough of them to know. One of my best mates, now retired, use to run a shop that sold about a 1/3 or more of David's annual output. So when I say that I've played hundreds of Webbers, that is not an exaggeration. I have. I cherry-picked this one the day it came into the shop. I also have a Larrivee Parlour, Sitka over Blackwood.

Both fall into the descriptions above. The clarity, focus and punch of a good Mahogany, but with more of the overtone series found in Rosewood. Where it falls on a spectrum between the two is hard to say, particularly given that the two endpoints are moving targets themselves. I've played very overtone rich, Rosewoody guitars that had Mahogany-backs, and Rosewood guitars without the metallic edge or overtones usually associated with Rosewood but with more of a fundamental like Mahogany. I've never had the chance to directly A/B a Blackwood and a Koa backed guitar by the same builder, so I would not personally hard an opinion of where each might generally fall on the spectrum between Mahogany and Rosewood. Guitars build with Blackwood backs may or may not fall closer to the Rosewood end than a similar Koa backed guitar, but by no means do they sound like Rosewood, in my experience Both do fall somewhere in between. Which is why I bought the Webber: it has great clarity, a lovely overtone series, and is a different tonal color to the other two woods.

If the builder does their job, it is a lovely tonewood from a sonic standpoint. Purddy too.

OMMV

TW

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

There’s also an acacia that grows in the continental United States that’s sometimes called “California koa.” My understanding is that it’s an introduced species, but I don’t know much more about than that. It’s not in common use as a tonewood, so far as I’m aware, but it has been used for guitar-building.

There’s also an acacia that’s being used by a number of ukulele companies, and occasionally for guitars. Again, I don’t know the exact species or whether it’s the same thing as so-called California koa. But it seems to be getting used a lot for factory-made ukuleles these days.

I, for one, would really appreciate if anyone with more detailed knowledge of the acacias in question could tell us more about them.


Wade Hampton Miller

Hi Wade. From what I have heard, the common name "California koa" refers to what is more commonly referred to in California as black acacia trees. These are Acacia Melanoxylon that have been introduced to California from Australia. They are an invasive species in California and are found all up and down the California coastal regions. "California koa" is a made up marketing term to get more money for their wood than just calling it black acacia wood. It is not koa but people tend to grab onto made up names and pay extra for it if it sounds like the kind of wood that they want. It is like the made up marketing name "African mahogany". There is no such thing but people want to believe that it is actually mahogany and are willing to pay much more for it than they would if its real name is used. The made up marketing term "African mahogany is used for both Khaya and Sapele woods in order to get much more profit. Both Khaya and Sapele are quite plentiful and inexpensive while actual Mahogany is becoming quite scarce and is now listed on Appendix II of CITES which raises its price substantially.

[larren]

Played an all Blackwood Maton 808 today. Focused and compressed (does that make sense?)........Might be the ticket for a heavy strummer like me.

Here's a video I found of one.

https://youtu.be/MZ423F6E7xI

[El Conquistador]

Originally Posted by colins

My Williams below pairs Tassie blackwood bought in a town called Devonport in the north of Tasmania with a kauri top from New Zealand some other Kiwi and Aussie woods for neck and trims.

Col

That's a beauty Col.

Steve