Boss VE-8 / TC Acoustic Play Harmonization

[swarfrat]

Looking at these two units and wondering about their harmonization abilities.

Specifically - when using the guitar to determine harmonization - are the harmonies restricted to the notes being played, or is it simply using it to determine the key? Also - how do they handle accidentals? If a vocal note is flatted/sharped from the specified (or determined) key - what will the harmonies do?

[RockerDuck]

The Tc is somewhat better with harmonies, The VE-8 is pretty good too, but the VE-8 does have pitch correction if you need it. I like the VE-8 better because it more dynamic and stands out in the mix better, plus it is 9volt too. That's good to put on a pedalboard. I had the play acoustic for awhile and it not a bad choice either.

[swarfrat]

Both claim to support pitch correction, they both sound great from the demos I've heard. Right now I'm leaning towards the TC for the interface. But...

What I'm asking about is what the harmonizer is gonna do when you depart the reservation of major diatonic scales. Most of my playing out is solo guitar/vocal hymns at church. And I can see it getting really wonky when fed something like:

http://openhymnal.org/Pdf/Beneath_Th...hristopher.pdf

Hence my question - are harmonies actually extracted from notes in the chord, or does it just use that to determine the key? If I play all fifths and no thirds, will there still be thirds showing up in the harmony? If I'm singing a note which is NOT in the computed scale - what happens to the harmony notes?

[Davis Webb]

If you are wanting pitch correction, make sure you really try it out, like for a gig kind of thing. Rent one....

Boss pitch correction is very good as a rule.
TC's , in a word, sucked.

On harmonies, I prefer to use a dedicated vocal line with harmonies, rather then plug the guitar in. I get full control that way. Boss always permits preset saves in various keys, can name them and change them with the pedail in the VE20 I use. I would like to know as well, how guitar-in harmonizers read your signal. Anyone know?

[Chriscom]

Boss VE-8 owner. There are two main ways to create harmonies: By chord or by key. There is also a hybrid setting which blends the two.

IIRC (I haven't used it in awhile), you can also set the sensitivity of the harmonizer to compensate for off-pitch singing. To get the result you're looking for, my wild guess is you might want to keep that off, and set the unit to harmonize-by-key, if you can sing on pitch but also want it to follow your accidentals accurately.

I've always used it to harmonize via chord. I expect it really is aimed at the chord rather than individual notes; I can think of one song I do in particular where I sing a steady legit note on top of a changing chord, and the harmony changes, properly, to the new key.

As for its quality, Boss/TC is a Windows versus Mac, Android/iPhone, Airbus/Boeing kinda thing, both products have fans. At its best the VE-8 harmonies sound good to me, but finding the best settings (and singing on pitch) are crucial. And as most will tell you a little goes a long way. Just a touch of harmony presence sounds cool; too much (and it doesn't take much) and you notice how processed it is.

Link to Boss for downloadable manual

https://za.boss.info/support/by_prod...manuals/351754

[capefisherman]

I would not count on any harmonizer being able to deal with accidentals or notes outside the key. I've owned a couple (including the ones you asked about) and my main complaint is not with the unit and whether or not it can harmonize but rather how it affects my guitar's tone. I work really hard to get as natural a sound as possible and every harmonizer I've tried affects the overall tone of my guitars, making it sound more artificial (to varying degrees, depending upon your set-up). Lots of people accept this trade-off however; it just doesn't work for me.

[swarfrat]

Just FTR, from my little research it doesnt appear that any of them support, nor is this thread talking about harmonizing the guitar.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by capefisherman

I would not count on any harmonizer being able to deal with accidentals or notes outside the key. I've owned a couple (including the ones you asked about) and my main complaint is not with the unit and whether or not it can harmonize but rather how it affects my guitar's tone. I work really hard to get as natural a sound as possible and every harmonizer I've tried affects the overall tone of my guitars, making it sound more artificial (to varying degrees, depending upon your set-up). Lots of people accept this trade-off however; it just doesn't work for me.

I haven't noticed that, but to be fair, I accept a relatively electrified sound, for lack of a better word, for my acoustic guitar. I should add the VE-8 does provide access to EQ for the guitar (a bit of a drill down that annoys some more than others) and it at least gives you a shot at setting things fairly neutral. But that is not a target I have been chasing lately.

[vibrolucky]

I have both the VE-8 & the TC Play Acoustic. The Boss is WAY more user friendly, can be changed easier on the fly. I like the way you can go ‘auto’ or actual key quickly.

[gfirob]

I use the Play Acoustic all the time, but I no longer use the Body Rez function on the PA because I am using a Tonedexter instead (so I zero out all the guitar functions except for reverb).

I have found that as long as I sing in pitch the harmonies are in pitch with the guitar as reference. Whatever chord I go to, the harmonies go there. And I am finger picking, so it is not using an entire strummed chord as reference, it figures out what the key and chord is. There is a learning curve, but once you learn the process it is very simple. And the harmonies will fool people if they are recorded, they are that good IMHO. I use the external pedal.

[swarfrat]

Got one in my grubby hands... what's the difference in Full and Hybrid key?

"Harmony is added according to the key specified by the [KEY] button and according to the chords played on the guitar"

Which is it and when?

[Chriscom]

I don't get loopers. I can see where it would be fun to play with by yourself. But not something I'd do in public.

Skillful loopers, laying down a rhythm-guitar background pretty quickly, and playing lead on top of that, can add great variety to solo acts while simultaneously resting their voices. Some of it gets a little showy (I don't like loopers who spend time laying down percussion and guitar and cute voice sounds and another layered guitar and on and on I get it already) but used wisely it really helps solo artists stand out.

[swarfrat]

Ok, played out with it first time. It didn't play nice with non-diatonic harmonies as I expected. So I ended up doing something that it would like, and kept the harmony at 'barely audible'. I could hear it a bit on the chorus but during the verse it wasn't so noticeable. Nice that it worked out that way.

The mute though... the buttons are a bit stiff for a 2 second hold to work smoothly. The initial press seems to be the problem - went to mute to plug in, and it bounced, so then I had to get it back to where I wanted it. Ended up doing more dancing than I wanted to.

I set the outputs up for separate vocal and guitar outputs and gave that to the sound guy. I might end up just giving him a mixed feed, he ended up putting the guitar too hot and I didn't have any compression on it, so it was played a bit too lightly and backing down just resulted in him cranking it more. (The sound guy is a volunteer with some pretty serious hearing damage. Subject for another forum.)

I ordered a roll of blue gaffer's tape after the performance. All I have is white (for snare drum heads), and didn't think to bring it, but the carpet at church is blue, and power is back behind me, making it a trip hazard.

All in all, the pedal added a lot to the performance. The pitch correction and harmony really helped fill out the vocal with a solo acoustic guitar.

[hotroad]

I play using vocal harmonizers a lot and here is what I know thats most important. In playing the guitar, you have to play the string that that chord uses as its major note. If you play Am you have to be sure to hit the A note somewhere on the guitar plus the note or notes that make it a minor chord. The other notes or strings don't matter a lot. So that means that you have to be aware of the chord and that it may take playing more strings than you had planned just to get the vocal harmony right. Hope that makes sense.

I use the Play Acoustic and the Boss and like the Boss a lot more for its simplicity of use. The harmony is determined by the vocal and the guitar. For the guitar, the harmonizer is not using the key but rather using the notes that I explained above. There are harmonizers though that allow you to set the key that a song is in but then you have to reach down and change that after every song. And if I sing off key, the harmonizer follows me off key.

I find that using a harmonizer adds a very useful component to my gigs since I see my audience react favorably to using it on particular songs as needed. They notice it and like it a lot. Overused and its boring and loses its flavor quickly. I also change the harmony setting from song to song occasionally to have variety vocally and fit the particular song more than another harmony. Of course if we hope to sound like the Eagles or other harmony driven groups, good luck with that.

[AeroUSA]

Play acoustic is the best no doubt