The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:32 PM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I'd say you're micing much too close, and the lack of an acoustically treated room is also contributing. Proximity effect kicks in at 16 inches with most mics. A little is fine - makes the guitar sound bigger, but 2-3 inches is way too much. 10-12 inches is what generally works for me.

I don't think the issue in your recording reflects anything generally about the guitars, it's just a matter of capturing each of them correctly. OMs are often called out as "easy" to record, balanced guitars that just sound good to mics. Lowdens are big, loud guitars, and that can be trickier to record.

But, you say you recorded the Lowden with 2 mics? The track sounds mono to me. Do you have the tracks mixed to mono or panned hard left and right? Mixing spaced pairs to mono with produce a muffled sound pretty much like what I hear in your track.
Thanks, this advice is very helpful.

The master track was set to mono on the DADGAD one, Iíll see if I can get it sounding better via mixing. Iím very new to recording and donít really know what I am doing yet.
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:36 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 7,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxo View Post
Thanks, this advice is very helpful.

The master track was set to mono on the DADGAD one, Iíll see if I can get it sounding better via mixing. Iím very new to recording and donít really know what I am doing yet.
If you want some help, PM me. Not sure what DAW you're using, but happy to take a look at your project if it would help.
__________________
Doug Young
----------------
Music on Pandora
You Tube Channel
website: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com
Fingerstyle Christmas Tunes: A DADGAD Christmas
Hymns Book: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar
CDs: Closing Time, Laurel Mill
Pickup tests: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:44 PM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
If you want some help, PM me. Not sure what DAW you're using, but happy to take a look at your project if it would help.
Thank you very much, that is very kind of you. I use Acoustica Mixcraft. Iím going to try recording something soon taking into account the suggestions in this thread, Iíll send you a message when I do.
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:44 PM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

After taking on the advice in this thread I'm really glad to say I think I have the Lowden sounding a hell of a lot better than before with correct mic positioning and gain settings. Here's the same song from before re-recorded, I haven't EQd it in any way or added any effects other than slightly panning the audio to make it stereo.



Does this sound better than before to you?
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 02-13-2020, 04:59 PM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 12,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxo View Post
After taking on the advice in this thread I'm really glad to say I think I have the Lowden sounding a hell of a lot better than before with correct mic positioning and gain settings. Here's the same song from before re-recorded, I haven't EQd it in any way or added any effects other than slightly panning the audio to make it stereo.



Does this sound better than before to you?
Yes guitar sounds more present to me . I would

That said : let's back up a bit . First I can only offer suggestions based on what I might do.
But:
So you have two mics and are recording to two mono tracks yes vocal and guitar at the same time ?
One for guitar and one for vocal yes ?

So if those are yes,? then EQ and compression might be your friend. (more later)

Also What exactly do you mean by slightly panning the audio ? And

So first , put an EQ on each track one on guitar and one on vocal and engage the high pass filter (i.e low frequency cut) to roll off say starting at about 60 hz but adjust that as per listening dictates.
As counter intuitive as this may sound cutting low freq mud will actually enhance the overall low end, " I will repeat that" cutting low freq mud will actually enhance the overall low end, AND will make the entire track have more of a present 3D quality, subtle but there. We can talk about compression also but i will wait for your reply to the questions
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud

Last edited by KevWind; 02-13-2020 at 05:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:53 PM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Yes guitar sounds more present to me . I would

That said : let's back up a bit . First I can only offer suggestions based on what I might do.
But:
So you have two mics and are recording to two mono tracks yes vocal and guitar at the same time ?
One for guitar and one for vocal yes ?

So if those are yes,? then EQ and compression might be your friend. (more later)

Also What exactly do you mean by slightly panning the audio ? And

So first , put an EQ on each track one on guitar and one on vocal and engage the high pass filter (i.e low frequency cut) to roll off say starting at about 60 hz but adjust that as per listening dictates.
As counter intuitive as this may sound cutting low freq mud will actually enhance the overall low end, " I will repeat that" cutting low freq mud will actually enhance the overall low end, AND will make the entire track have more of a present 3D quality, subtle but there. We can talk about compression also but i will wait for your reply to the questions
Thanks very much for your suggestions - it’s pretty late across the pond so I will try this out and get back to you at some point tomorrow.

By panning audio I meant shifting the tracks a couple of percent to left for vocals and right for guitar.
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 02-13-2020, 06:10 PM
NotALuth NotALuth is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 195
Default

Hi foxo, sounds better to me.!

Really pleased itís working out for you ( and a lot less expensive than swapping guitars or buying new gear,).

Btw, once youíve got the mic placement so that itís sounding close to what you want, one way of fine-tuning it is to change the angle of the guitar slightly, so that instead of it being parallel to the plane of the mic capsule, either the neck or body is slightly nearer (or farther) away without changing the basic overall distance.

The thing to do is to keep experimenting and listening.

[Another completely different miking technique is to bring it in over your Ďpickingí shoulder which often gives a sound closer to what the player hears from the guitar]

Regards,
Clive.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 02-14-2020, 07:21 AM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotALuth View Post
Hi foxo, sounds better to me.!

Really pleased itís working out for you ( and a lot less expensive than swapping guitars or buying new gear,).

Btw, once youíve got the mic placement so that itís sounding close to what you want, one way of fine-tuning it is to change the angle of the guitar slightly, so that instead of it being parallel to the plane of the mic capsule, either the neck or body is slightly nearer (or farther) away without changing the basic overall distance.

The thing to do is to keep experimenting and listening.

[Another completely different miking technique is to bring it in over your Ďpickingí shoulder which often gives a sound closer to what the player hears from the guitar]

Regards,
Clive.
Cheers Clive
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:46 PM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Yes guitar sounds more present to me . I would

That said : let's back up a bit . First I can only offer suggestions based on what I might do.
But:
So you have two mics and are recording to two mono tracks yes vocal and guitar at the same time ?
One for guitar and one for vocal yes ?

So if those are yes,? then EQ and compression might be your friend. (more later)

Also What exactly do you mean by slightly panning the audio ? And

So first , put an EQ on each track one on guitar and one on vocal and engage the high pass filter (i.e low frequency cut) to roll off say starting at about 60 hz but adjust that as per listening dictates.
As counter intuitive as this may sound cutting low freq mud will actually enhance the overall low end, " I will repeat that" cutting low freq mud will actually enhance the overall low end, AND will make the entire track have more of a present 3D quality, subtle but there. We can talk about compression also but i will wait for your reply to the questions
Hi Kev, I've added a low cut filter as per your suggestion - https://clyp.it/retgmvyy

I've realised I had the vocal mic a bit too far away, it was about 10 inches as with the guitar but next time I'll sing closer.

Just to confirm I am recording with two mics, one for vocals and one for guitar at the same time. Another member I spoke to via PM seemed to think the recording was a bit muffled due to the sound of vocals / guitars being picked up by both mics at the same time and suggested trying to record in a way that mitigates that.
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:14 PM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 12,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxo View Post
Hi Kev, I've added a low cut filter as per your suggestion - https://clyp.it/retgmvyy

I've realised I had the vocal mic a bit too far away, it was about 10 inches as with the guitar but next time I'll sing closer.

Just to confirm I am recording with two mics, one for vocals and one for guitar at the same time. Another member I spoke to via PM seemed to think the recording was a bit muffled due to the sound of vocals / guitars being picked up by both mics at the same time and suggested trying to record in a way that mitigates that.
First to my ears I think the vocal is more forward than the guitar if it were me I would bring the guitar up at bit or more likely I would bring the vocal down . And in the future if you decided to move the vocal mic closer, I would do the same with the guitar,.

I suspected you were using two mics. Which is why I asked if you used two separate mono tracks ? (as opposed to one stereo track ) Because then you can use a separate EQ and compressor on each individual track.

Personally I don't think it is muffled because of bleed (it's possible) But I would guess it has more to do the room reflections and the specific characteristics of the guitar. Me I would on that mix, bring the vocal down a bit and then use a comp on both vocal and guitar separately , set to fairly light ratio and threshold , with the vocal having a bit faster attack and the guitar having a slower attack. And I would also bus them to a master stereo bus track and use a second comp or limiter on it as well , set pretty light also
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 02-14-2020, 04:26 PM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
First to my ears I think the vocal is more forward than the guitar if it were me I would bring the guitar up at bit or more likely I would bring the vocal down . And in the future if you decided to move the vocal mic closer, I would do the same with the guitar,.

I suspected you were using two mics. Which is why I asked if you used two separate mono tracks ? (as opposed to one stereo track ) Because then you can use a separate EQ and compressor on each individual track.

Personally I don't think it is muffled because of bleed (it's possible) But I would guess it has more to do the room reflections and the specific characteristics of the guitar. Me I would on that mix, bring the vocal down a bit and then use a comp on both vocal and guitar separately , set to fairly light ratio and threshold , with the vocal having a bit faster attack and the guitar having a slower attack. And I would also bus them to a master stereo bus track and use a second comp or limiter on it as well , set pretty light also
Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions. Very new to this (normally a friend records and mixes my music as heís into that as a hobby) so will take on board your advice and see how it goes.
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:32 AM
TBman's Avatar
TBman TBman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 26,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxo View Post
After taking on the advice in this thread I'm really glad to say I think I have the Lowden sounding a hell of a lot better than before with correct mic positioning and gain settings. Here's the same song from before re-recorded, I haven't EQd it in any way or added any effects other than slightly panning the audio to make it stereo.



Does this sound better than before to you?
Much better to my ears.
__________________
Barry

<>
<>
<>
Liam's Day:


<>

My music on Reverbnation

2016 Avalon L2-320C, 2004 Larrivee OM-05, 2015 Guild D-120c, 2016 Gibson J-45, 2003 Martin D-16GT

Cordoba C5
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:08 AM
foxo foxo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBman View Post
Much better to my ears.
Thanks TBman. I’m glad I tried out all those guitars the other day, it reminded me quite how great this Lowden is and I’m appreciating the sound and playing comfort of the instrument much more now.
__________________
Martin 00015m with Baggs Anthem SL
Lowden F32


YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | SOUNDCLOUD

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-16-2020, 01:12 AM
alohachris alohachris is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Honolulu
Posts: 2,150
Default Aloha Neil. PM'ed Ya

Aloha Neil,

PM'ed ya.

Sorry I referred to you by your middle name, Matthew. We aged Island folk are so lo-lo.

alohachris


PS: Stay away from that Focusrite Scarlett series interface. Terrible onboard preamps.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=