Premium Tuners Worth Cost??

oneshot1405 · #1 05-03-2019, 10:17 AM

I have three taylor guitars and I was thinking about getting some Gotoh 510 tuners installed on them in place of the standard taylor tuners. I've heard really good things about the 510s.

My question is compared to the taylor tuners I have on them already, how much difference will it make splurging on the gotohs?

#2 05-03-2019, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneshot1405

My question is compared to the taylor tuners I have on them already, how much difference will it make splurging on the gotohs?

What are the shortcomings of the stock tuners that you're trying to overcome?

oneshot1405 · #3 05-03-2019, 10:25 AM

There's nothing terribly wrong with the stock tuners. I'm just trying to optimize the tuning stability of the instruments.

Does anyone recommend locking tuners also?

Tnfiddler · #4 05-03-2019, 10:28 AM

I've put Gotoh 510s on all of my Taylor guitars except my GS mini. The best upgrade you can do to them. They look fantastic and are super precise and smooth.

Kerbie · #5 05-03-2019, 10:28 AM

That's probably just personal opinion. I love the 510s and I would enjoy having them on all of my guitars. I've upgraded tuners a couple times and each time been very glad I did. I like the precision the 510s give, but not everybody will feel the same.

RP · #6 05-03-2019, 10:29 AM

I would say the differences are incremental in regard to smoothness and staying in tune. I own and have owned a number of Taylors with standard tuners and have never wanted for better. I recently purchased a super-fine Taylor 614 on which the previous owner had installed Gotoh 510s. They are definitely an improvement (and very easy on the eye), but not something I would have done on my own...

yellowesty · #7 05-03-2019, 10:37 AM

I build 3 or 4 acoustic steel-string guitars every year. I've used an array of tuners, including Gotoh 510's and VERY low-cost unbranded (e.g., Chinese-made) tuners. I haven't found any difference in "tuning stability" among the tuners that I've used.

The Gotoh 510's (and other "premium" tuners that I've used) have a nicer feel and a higher quality appearance, and, maybe, are a bit easier to tune accurately than their cheaper counterparts, but I haven't found that they hold tuning any better. Note: when I find Gotoh 510's available at an attractive price, I buy them. They are very nice tuners.

RoseAdi · #8 05-03-2019, 10:51 AM

I agree with RP. It is an incremental improvement.
I replaced Taylor’s original timers on my 714 with Gotoh 510s and I really like the change in aesthetics and the smoothness of the gears so to me it was worth the money. I have to say that the originals held tune as good as Gotohs.

You also have the option of higher gear ratios.

phavriluk · #9 05-03-2019, 11:09 AM

I think OP's guitars will need tuning every time one gets played, new tuners won't change that. I've also found Taylor OEM tuners work just fine. And tuners don't 'slip'. I think a guitar with aftermarket tuners will need tuning just as often as it did with OEM tuners.

Aesthetics and pride in detail, for OP to judge.

DenverSteve · #10 05-03-2019, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire

What are the shortcomings of the stock tuners that you're trying to overcome?

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneshot1405

There's nothing terribly wrong with the stock tuners. I'm just trying to optimize the tuning stability of the instruments.

You answered this question with what, to me, would answer the original question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowesty

I build 3 or 4 acoustic steel-string guitars every year. I've used an array of tuners, including Gotoh 510's and VERY low-cost unbranded (e.g., Chinese-made) tuners. I haven't found any difference in "tuning stability" among the tuners that I've used.

....They are very nice tuners.

Agree with this and RP. I would never replace anything that wasn't in need of change. I've never found "tuning instability" with any factory tuners on quality guitars. Some are different ratios. Some are slightly smoother but tuners aren't like shoes that you are in contact with all the time. You tune, then you play. I like the 510's on the guitars I have that they came on but I would never replace factory/builder tuners unless there was an issue.

ChalkLitIScream · #11 05-03-2019, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneshot1405

There's nothing terribly wrong with the stock tuners. I'm just trying to optimize the tuning stability of the instruments.

Does anyone recommend locking tuners also?

Locking tuners are unnecessary on acoustics, especially if you aren't bending notes. If you have trouble with tuning stability, its probably the fault of the nut, and string binding in the slots to be specific. Put lubricant in the slots, or get them cut properly, and that should be a cheaper solution in the long run.

The Taylor tuners are great themselves, and have a high 18:1 ratio-good enough for me.
I did however swap out to Gotoh 510 luxury mode (give them a google search, they look sweet) mainly because of the looks. The gold hardware puts a touch of class! THe gotohs really feel smooth, and you can feel how good of a build quality they are.
I am one of those folks who tinker a lot. Ive put in FMI bridge pins, bone saddles, a new TRC, etc...

Dont expect wonders, and if you think $100-150 isn't much to invest in, get em.

Glennwillow · #12 05-03-2019, 11:41 AM

Some people just like premium things. So if that is you, Gotoh 510 tuners are certainly premium tuners. They feel good under your fingers, they are precise, the tuner knobs never hurt your fingers because too much effort is required.

I have two Taylor guitars and have never felt inclined to change those tuners because, I think, in general Taylor's tuners have a pretty good gear ratio on the tuners. So the Taylor tuners never hurt my fingers.

I have a Santa Cruz OM/PW that has tuners with a fairly low gear ratio, like the prewar guitars had. I am not sure what that ratio is on my OM/PW, but probably on the order of 13:1. The tuners on this guitar hurt my fingers at times. (I know, I am getting old.

) So this is one guitar, as much as I love this guitar, that could really use some higher ratio Gotoh tuners. It would feel so much better.

But tuning stability? Even as hard to turn as the OM/PW tuners can sometimes feel, tuning stability on this guitar is not an issue and never has been.

Wade Hampton Miller on the AGF is quite the expert on Gotoh tuners. He advised me a long time ago that I could purchase some Gotoh 18:1 tuners that would fit onto the headstock of my old 1967 Martin D-35 which has the original sealed Grover tuners. I did buy the replacement Gotoh tuners and they fit beautifully, but because they are lighter than the original Grovers and probably because I tightened everything up more when installing the Gotoh tuners, the sound of my old D-35 changed quite dramatically. It seemed as if the guitar lost all kinds of bass, which is one of the things I always loved about this old D-35. Probably what really happened is that it picked up all kinds of treble response, which changed the relative sonic balance of the guitar. Either way, my wife noticed the change immediately -- "What happened to your guitar?!!" she said. I liked the feel of the Gotohs for sure.

But I took the Gotohs off, put the Grovers back on, got the sound back on the guitar, and put the Gotohs in a drawer where they remain today, several years later. I should sell them. The sound of the guitar was more important to me than having an 18:1 gear ratio. Again, regarding tuning stability, my old D-35 has no tuning stability issues. It just takes more effort to turn the tuners.

I have some custom built guitars with very nice tuners -- my Sheppard has 21:1 Gotoh tuners and my Olson has 18:1 Schaller tuners. There is no question that these tuners feel very good under my fingers and that they are a joy to use.

To me justification for purchasing 3rd party premium tuners is a matter of personal preference. I have a Voyage-Air VAOM-06 with fairly cheap tuners with a fairly low gear ratio. They work, but I keep thinking, I should put those Gotoh tuners on this guitar that I took off the D-35. I would have to drill some new holes, and that holds me back a little. Meantime, those Gotoh 510 tuners are still in that drawer.

- Glenn

jpmist · #13 05-03-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneshot1405

I have three taylor guitars and I was thinking about getting some Gotoh 510 tuners installed on them in place of the standard taylor tuners. I've heard really good things about the 510s.

My question is compared to the taylor tuners I have on them already, how much difference will it make splurging on the gotohs?

For me the change from going from 14:1 to 18:1 was well worth the money spent on my 510's. I enjoy home recording so accurate tuning is a priority and it's so much less hassle now. I will never have a guitar without the 510's.

Been a while since I had a Taylor paddlehead, but the slothead tuners on my 322 were absolute trash. 4 out of 6 had quite a bit of play where I could turn the key a 1/4 turn and nothing would happen. I replaced those with a set of Shallers which I like as much as the 510s.

No harm in just trying one set to audition them, you're not likely to lose much if you resold them on Reverb or eBay as there's a pretty good market for 'em. Be sure to get the set that are drop in replacements so you don't have to put in any more screw holes. I'm betting you could well end up putting them on all three of your Taylors. Good luck with it!

chistrummer · #14 05-03-2019, 11:56 AM

Taylor tuners are actually very good but the 510’s are huge step up imo.

jim1960 · #15 05-03-2019, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneshot1405

There's nothing terribly wrong with the stock tuners. I'm just trying to optimize the tuning stability of the instruments.

Does anyone recommend locking tuners also?

New tuners aren't going to make your tuning more "stable." Guitars go out of tune for a variety of reasons: temperature, humidity, age of strings ...all of those things will effect tuning stability more than your Taylor tuners. Unless you have damaged tuners, new tuners are not going to decrease the need to tune your guitar.

Locking tuners are unnecessary on acoustic guitars unless you're tuning with lighter gauge strings and doing a lot of really big bends.

The tuners on your Taylors are good tuners. The mechanical improvement you'd get from the Gotohs will be very slight. Unless there's something aesthetically that bothers you about the Taylor tuners, I'd leave them on. I have Gotohs on a bunch of my guitars. I love them but I've never considered putting them on my Taylors because the Taylor tuners don't come up short in any way for me.