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  #76  
Old 04-15-2021, 03:42 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Not to say I would embrace auto-tune, but what exactly does anyone think frets are?

I'm sure there were musicians who played traditional fretless instruments that would have reacted the same way when observing someone playing a fretted instrument.

"We didn't need anything to help us with musical intervals for a million years, why on earth do we need frets now? It must be a lack of talent that someone uses them."

There's a lot of "You kids get off my lawn" going on here. I don't see much difference between a musician using a device to create live harmony and a musician who records his work and markets it, or taking "recording" a step further, incorporates live "recording" (looping) into their performance.

All of this is simply the choice of the performer and anyone has a choice to listen or not as they choose.

Anyone who watches Ed Sheeran do a live looping performance in front of 100,000 adoring fans at Glastonbury realizes these devices are simply tools and don't have anything to do with talent vs lack thereof.
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  #77  
Old 04-16-2021, 07:41 AM
Goat Mick Goat Mick is offline
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If you don't already have the chops or singing talent, a looper or harmonizer isn't going to make you sound any better. It's just going to give you a lot "more" of what you're already doing wrong. For the past 10 years I've been playing with my mic and my guitar plugged directly into the amp or PA and I've been successful with that route. Right now I'm working on putting together a gigging pedal board that also includes a Mic Mechanic to help richen up my vocals a bit and also provides a small amount of correction because, face it, after a few 3 and 4 hour gigs in a row everyone gets tired and misses a note occasionally.
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  #78  
Old 04-16-2021, 08:07 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
I do use a vocal harmonizer, the TC Helicon Gxt. It gives up to 3 part harmony in 3rd or 5ths above and below. The correction on the model I have is a function of the software listening to the guitar chords, and making the harmonies "correct" as for a minor vs a major. Sing badly, and it sounds bad. Mix in too much harmony and it sounds odd. Mix in a bit of harmony, keep it subtle, and it adds another dimension to your performance.

Other musicians understand what the pedal is doing, many are fascinated by it. Most of the time, the crowd just enjoys the music, often commenting on the overall sound. Most musicians have no problem with a singer doing their own harmony tracks on a recording... this is pretty much the same, just easy to use live (I don't care for backing tracks for myself). Like any effect, over-use it and it gets old. Add some harmony on the chorus and it sounds richer.

Some guitar players use effect pedals on their guitar to modify the tone. Similar situation for the vocals, with a harmonizer. It won't make a bad singer sound good... just like pedals won't make a crappy guitar player sound good.

If you play in public, you have made adjustments to the PA or amp to get the sound/tone you prefer. This isn't like auto-tune that many of the current pop stars over-use.

I played in bands for a lot of years. Playing solo, I missed the vocal harmonies; this gives you the option. Don't write it off as a gimmick if you haven't used one.

Best wishes,
Captain Jim
If you are playing solo and want harmony - there is no other way. And, they perfectly mimic your phrasing.
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  #79  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:12 PM
Denandannie Denandannie is offline
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Originally Posted by slewis View Post
Simple and basic "effects" (like reverb and delay) are one thing; auto-harmonizing is another (not high on my list), and some gizmo that literally fixes the flaws in your voice is an entirely other (unacceptable) thing. Absolutely no offense intended to anyone, but I'd walk out on, or would never go see in the first place, any performer if I knew they were using some kind of vocal pitch-correction thing. It should insult any listener, in fact. When they invent a machine that makes your fingers play the right notes on the fretboard, are we going to sit and happily listen to THEM TOO? I sure wont be. We gotta draw the line somewhere on where effects end and talent begins.
all the pros use them
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  #80  
Old 04-17-2021, 04:45 AM
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Unless you don't like hearing Rick Beato complain about stuff,
this short video is fun and connects with this thread a little...



-Mike
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  #81  
Old 04-17-2021, 07:40 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
If you are playing solo and want harmony - there is no other way. And, they perfectly mimic your phrasing.
I made that quoted post in 2013, and I still use a vocal harmonizer. I "moved up" to the THC Play Acoustic. That was in quotes because the Play Acoustic does more than the Gxt, but it is also more fussy to set up, with all the button pushes and twists needed to get through the menus. Once set up, I pretty much use it like I did the Gxt, with the "hit" button to add or turn off the harmony and the up/down buttons to change the harmony voicing.

I still feel the same way about it: for a solo performer, it adds interest to use the harmonies on some chorus parts. Still best when used subtly and not over-used. With a decade of using a harmonizer, most reaction is "sounds good," with the rare occasional person looking around to see where that second voice is coming from.

No downside, other than 2 more cords and another minute or so of set up time.
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  #82  
Old 04-17-2021, 08:51 AM
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Love Rick Beato, excellent rant, and happily surprised his big demographic is younger people. But I don't see autotune in studios as the same thing as harmonizers and loopers for solo live gigs. So focusing on this thread I will simply say:
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  #83  
Old 04-17-2021, 09:31 AM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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In the late 90's I used a Roland GR?? I forget but it was a Guitar effect that you added a pickup to your guitar and you could play hundreds of sounds....Like:
I used steel drums on "Margarita Ville"
Strings on "Nights in White Satin"
And more
Not on every song...only in selected spots and songs
But I was the second guitar...The Rhythm guitar so I could fall out and use other sounds when needed
Yea it was fun watching people try to figure out where the Strings or Horns or Steel drums were coming from

I've got a MicMechanic that I've used mainly for pretty up the vocals and reverb into a PA speaker but I'm selling that today because I'll have reverb in the Gigmix I'm going to buy soon
I never really used the auto-Tune ....I know when I hit a bad note and I fix it...

So I guess what I'm saying is just supporting what others have said... Effects are great when used sparingly and at the right places.
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  #84  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:15 PM
Richard_H Richard_H is offline
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Musicians have increasingly become prima donnas. Nobody wants to be a team member and work with other musicians. It's my way or I'll quit.

Any device that reduces the dependency of musicians on each other makes it possible for all musicians to realize their musical ideas without having to survive band politics.

I spent years backing up other musicians - playing 'follow the leader' - because I was able to play their music and they were either unable or unwilling to play mine (OMG it has more than 4 chords!!!).

Now I only work alone - using midi devices to replace other musicians. Now I'm finally able to play MY music.

Too bad, cause the best music is the product of teamwork, cooperation and collaboration.

But that's from a time long ago.
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  #85  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:31 PM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard_H View Post
Musicians have increasingly become prima donnas. Nobody wants to be a team member and work with other musicians. It's my way or I'll quit.



Any device that reduces the dependency of musicians on each other makes it possible for all musicians to realize their musical ideas without having to survive band politics.



I spent years backing up other musicians - playing 'follow the leader' - because I was able to play their music and they were either unable or unwilling to play mine (OMG it has more than 4 chords!!!).



Now I only work alone - using midi devices to replace other musicians. Now I'm finally able to play MY music.



Too bad, cause the best music is the product of teamwork, cooperation and collaboration.



But that's from a time long ago.
One of the best experiences you can have by playing is when a band comes together on a song ...a night or whatever, nothing like knowing what the other guy is doing or going to do, nothing like team work. When it works.
It can be magical on those nights when the stars are alined
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  #86  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:35 PM
CASD57 CASD57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_H View Post
Musicians have increasingly become prima donnas. Nobody wants to be a team member and work with other musicians. It's my way or I'll quit.



Any device that reduces the dependency of musicians on each other makes it possible for all musicians to realize their musical ideas without having to survive band politics.



I spent years backing up other musicians - playing 'follow the leader' - because I was able to play their music and they were either unable or unwilling to play mine (OMG it has more than 4 chords!!!).



Now I only work alone - using midi devices to replace other musicians. Now I'm finally able to play MY music.



Too bad, cause the best music is the product of teamwork, cooperation and collaboration.



But that's from a time long ago.
Lol, more then four chords....wow, hate see them do a waltz..
Or even better.,...Mack the Knife
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  #87  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:42 PM
Richard_H Richard_H is offline
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Originally Posted by CASD57 View Post
Lol, more then four chords....wow, hate see them do a waltz..
Or even better.,...Mack the Knife
Too many Rock 'n Roll star wanna be's and too few dedicated musicians.
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  #88  
Old 04-18-2021, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard_H View Post
.
Now I only work alone - using midi devices to replace other musicians. Now I'm finally able to play MY music.
Back in the day--almost 40 years ago--I was in a band that ended up using a drum machine instead of a real drummer. We had to take turns programming it, but it didn't take a cut of the pay, either!

It's a choice. Collaboration can be wonderful, but I'm not going to knock anyone for how they make their music.
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  #89  
Old 04-19-2021, 09:53 AM
EZYPIKINS EZYPIKINS is offline
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. Everybody has a right to be a star without all that tedious practicing and learning.[/QUOTE]

Yes just listen to the songs on the top of the charts right now. So much digital processing going into them. You can't tell if they can carry a tune or not. My Dad has one of these units. So I have had the chance to play with it. I played for years in a band full of singers. And real harmony. If it's a choice between my voice alone and this emulated crap. I'll chose my voice alone.
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  #90  
Old 04-19-2021, 10:06 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS View Post
. Everybody has a right to be a star without all that tedious practicing and learning.

Yes just listen to the songs on the top of the charts right now. So much digital processing going into them. You can't tell if they can carry a tune or not. My Dad has one of these units. So I have had the chance to play with it. I played for years in a band full of singers. And real harmony. If it's a choice between my voice alone and this emulated crap. I'll chose my voice alone.
Anybody that's heard me sing will vote for the emulated crap.
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