The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 04-21-2019, 09:24 PM
Kojo27 Kojo27 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mawmow View Post
Interesting : thinner stings on .ADG.. strings, with normal strings on detuned strings E...BE in DADGAD. That makes sense !
Thanks !
I'm trying to figure out what Cleartone String Co. might be up to with their Grand Light set... maybe the same thing.

I think the gauges are something close to:

1. .013
2. .017
3. .025
4. .032
5. .042
6. .053

But for the low E... ??? You know, I'm in love with this set because I've always substituted a .014 for a .013 in a regular set of .013s, going for a bigger sound - a fatter soloing sound on acoustic archtops. But with the .017 for the B string, then the others being really light, I get a similar feel. :-)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-25-2021, 03:37 PM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: La Ferté Milon, France
Posts: 489
Default

Martin Retro Monels are hex-core, which is probably not very period-accurate if that's important. Newtone and (IIRC) Kurt Mangan make round-core monel-wound strings, and there are quite a few claims in other sections of this board that they're better than the Martins.

What about the Eartwood Silk & Steel or Thomastik-Infeld Plectrum strings (both 80/20 wrapped), has anyone tried those on a Loar or comparable acoustic archtop?
__________________
Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Dumbo: Seagull Performer CW mini-jumbo (Canada, 20??)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-26-2021, 12:22 AM
radiofm74 radiofm74 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Italy and Switzerland
Posts: 46
Default

I suggest reading this little gem: https://www.campusfive.com/swingguit...ng-guitar.html

If you're to play unamplified in the style of the 20s-40s, I'd say your pick is between Monel and Bronze, both roundwound. My own Loar LH-700 is strung with Martin retro 12s because it is equipped with a DeArmond FHC and bronze strings do not balance well with that pickup. On my other archtops I have GHS vintage bronze 12s. They sound very nice acoustically and they also sound very well and well-balanced through my Rhythm Chief pickups.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:20 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY - for now
Posts: 12,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofm74 View Post
I suggest reading this little gem: https://www.campusfive.com/swingguit...ng-guitar.html

...My own Loar LH-700 is strung with Martin retro 12s because it is equipped with a DeArmond FHC and bronze strings do not balance well with that pickup...
FYI he used to be an AGF member, and posted with some regularity here on the Archtop subforum; if you haven't heard his YouTube clips he's also one heluva player, and one of the very few born after the Eisenhower Administration who really "gets it" when it comes to acoustic archtops...

FWIW I'd try a set of monel 13's at your next string change - more acoustic volume and more signal to the pickup...
__________________
"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool"
- Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:23 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: La Ferté Milon, France
Posts: 489
Default

Personally I'd not be not particularly interested in recreating the old sound - in fact, what I'm really dreaming of is a nylon-stringed archtop and/or a contemporary instrument that builds upon the strengths of the archtop design but isn't intended to be used for 1 or 2 particular styles or techniques only (I like the sound a heavy, esp. wooden pick can give but in my heart I'm a fleshy-fingerpick person.)

(I'd just have to win the lottery, or maybe ask what's the name of that Chinese company again that makes "cheap" but good (enough) archtops..)
__________________
Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Dumbo: Seagull Performer CW mini-jumbo (Canada, 20??)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-26-2021, 02:26 AM
radiofm74 radiofm74 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Italy and Switzerland
Posts: 46
Default

Hey Steve! Jonathan Stout is one of my idols … been a fan of his "full band" output for a long time but am also thrilled he came out with chord melody solo guitar records recently, and his small combo "Close Shave Quartet". There are very few guitarists around with his command of swing language (and swing-to-bop, but he'd be the first to deny it perhaps )

At the time I had tried 13s too but I thought 12s were almost as loud and more comfortable to play. Coming from someone with your experience, the suggestion carries a lot of weight so I'll try at next string change. Unsure I want to do that to my '38 DeLuxe although of course she was built to withstand a lot more… but she's 83 now… hmm…

Keep swingin'!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-26-2021, 03:04 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: La Ferté Milon, France
Posts: 489
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiofm74 View Post
Unsure I want to do that to my '38 DeLuxe although of course she was built to withstand a lot more… but she's 83 now… hmm…
Remember that most of the famous, ahem, luthier-quality concert violins were built for A=415Hz (or so) and were converted for A=440Hz (possibly more like 430-435 actually) in the early 19th century. Nowadays concert pitch keeps creeping up and these instruments still endure. Not suggesting that early 20thC guitar builders were in the same league as those Italian luthiers (Antonio & Co would be spinning in their graves), but the load increase from tuning up over half a tone PLUS using a much higher bridge is considerably more important than going from 12s to 13s.
On the other hand, instruments can react unexpectedly to changes in gauge (sound wise). My own mini jumbo is built for something like 11-54, definitely sounds better with a 12 E1. It lights up with 13s when using a (heavy/wooden) pick, but sounds muffled fingerpicked even with Retro 11s or Earthwood Silk & Steel Soft, to the player at least. But with the Thomastik AC111 it really opened up when fingerpicking, even for me as a player, and as far as I can tell it does sound louder from the listener position too. That was really unexpected because it doesn't appear to be particularly lightly built.

I saw mention somewhere that Martin Retros give a higher load while being more flexible aka easier to play. What's the math behind that? Copper is slightly heavier and denser than nickel, zinc (the other ingredient in brass) is considerably heavier but less dense than nickel. Monel can contain a bunch of other ingredients so I don't dare to predict which of the 2 alloys is the denser/heavier one...

BTW, I also saw a remark about an archtop being short-scale compared to a flattop (IIRC it applied to a Loar 6x0 or 700), suggesting that it requires a heavier gauge of strings to reach the same tension at tune. I thought the same about my resonator (635mm from saddle to nut) and it's probably true that the frets being closer to each other helps making higher tension strings more playable. Recently I realised that I forgot that the part of the string between saddle and stringholder is under the same tension as the part on the other side of the saddle, and thus contributes to the actual string tension.
__________________
Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator converted to non-metal strings (China, 2018?)
Dumbo: Seagull Performer CW mini-jumbo (Canada, 20??)
Bolink baroque violin (Hilversum, 1982)
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-26-2021, 05:36 AM
dkstott dkstott is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Middletown, Connecticut
Posts: 1,356
Default

Monel's certainly have their fair share of fans here.

They're not bad, just not the sound I personally want. They sounded like used PB strings & got muddier from there.

For my strictly fingerstyle chord melody playing. I like Elixir nanoweb strings.

I've got the acoustic version Elixirs on my Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop & the electric version on my Godin jazz.
__________________
2003 Froggy Bottom H-12 Deluxe
2019 Cordoba C-12 Cedar
2016 Godin acoustic archtop
2011 Godin Jazz model archtop
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=