Adi top/bracing on 000-18...improvements?

[TDavis]

Is an Adirondack top really effective toward increasing projection, volume and headroom?

I am leaning toward a purchase of a Custom 000-18 that has an Adi top and Golden Era bracing. I've owned two 000-18's in the past, and played several as well...and have thought several of them (two of those are the ones I owned) sounded "mushy" and like someone had put socks in the sound hole.

I can't play this one before I buy it...but it's being sold by someone I trust, so that's not an issue. Has anybody here had experience with a similarly upgraded 000-18 that can clue me as to the tonal enhancements I'm likely to have with this one vs. the ones I've played in the past?

[zmf]

There was a recent thread on the pros and cons of a red spruce top. You might want to check it out. Maybe best not to ascribe a quality to a spruce species -- it's a question of the particular wood slabs used on a guitar and how well they're optimized to be a good soundboard.

That said, Adirondack can be stiff, tight and require strong input, though brands other than Martin tend to build more responsive guitars with it. The GE bracing is also going to make it more responsive. So the logical question is what is your playing style. If flatpicking, you can provide the input. If fingerstyle with bare finger tips and nails, it might be more problematic.

Most of my opinion comes from having owned a custom D-18V with Adirondack. I play with finger tips/nails. I loved the tone, but it felt like a flatpicker's guitar -- just needed more input.

Anyway -- my $0.02. Sounds like you know the seller, so ask the relevant questions.

[rickcrna]

A couple of weeks ago, I took delivery of a new Custom OOO-18GE acquired from Jon at MFG. Already having a 1995 HD-28, and adding a 2019 OM-28
this past summer, I really wanted to put something different into the mix. A OOO body short scale with Adi top and mahogany back and sides with GE bracing
seemed to fit the bill perfectly. Hopefully this will satisfy my periodic inclinations to get a D-18 although playing a dreadnaught is not as comfortable for me anymore....
but I really enjoy that crisp and woody "hog sound".

First of all, the construction on this new guitar is fantastic and gorgeous. Surprisingly, the action right out of the box is very good and comfortable.
This is my first short scale so it will take time to formulate an opinion as to ease of playability compared to my other guitars. Sonically, the notes are
clear and balanced across all six strings with a surprising amount of pleasant bass with more than adequate volume. The sustain is very noticeable
although the overtones don't in any way clash into one another. I'm mostly a strummer and I have no difficulty in playing this guitar gently or with
a more aggressive attack. The sound doesn't get muddy or break up with a heavy right hand. Of course, playing some fingerstyle is a real treat as well.

Am looking forward to breaking in the Adi top over time. It's not unpleasantly "stiff" but does seem different than my Sitka topped guitars. Not sure
I have the words to quite describe the differences in feel quite just yet. Of course, the MLO PA neck is comfortable for me and I'm sure I'll get on well
with the short sale dimensions. In conclusion, I am very, very satisfied with my choice.

[Pnewsom]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

Is an Adirondack top really effective toward increasing projection, volume and headroom?



I am leaning toward a purchase of a Custom 000-18 that has an Adi top and Golden Era bracing. I've owned two 000-18's in the past, and played several as well...and have thought several of them (two of those are the ones I owned) sounded "mushy" and like someone had put socks in the sound hole.



I can't play this one before I buy it...but it's being sold by someone I trust, so that's not an issue. Has anybody here had experience with a similarly upgraded 000-18 that can clue me as to the tonal enhancements I'm likely to have with this one vs. the ones I've played in the past?

Maybe it's the shorter scale of the 000-18's that is putting you off. Personally, I enjoy the blues'ness of the my 57' 000-18. Though I'm not sure, I believe the top to be Adirondack.

Perhaps an OM with the 251/2 scale might be the ticket?

[TJNies]

As has been mentioned, be cautious not to over-generalize about woods to sound.
That said, the GE braces will make the Adi more responsive.

This may not help a lot, but my two current acoustics are an 00-30 (12 fret, short scale) with Adirondack top, Adi GE scalloped braces and hide glue. My OM-18 also has GE braces, but Sitka top and Sinker B&S.

The 00-30 is super-responsive, articulate, and incredibly loud! It's sometimes difficult to play softly as it just wants to sing! It's 5 years old now, so it's had time to break in nicely. I do note that it wants a little warm-up time each playing session to sound its best.

The OM-18 is a bit less responsive, and has that typical Sitka fuzziness when you drive it hard. This not a bad thing, just expected from the wood. Fingerstyle or light strumming, it plays super soft and sweet.

I am of the current opinion that if I were picking, I'd go Adirondack with the scalloped bracing for the best of both worlds. So your 000-18 custom sounds like a winner!

[UncleJesse]

While not a 000 I recently picked up an OM with adi top and GE bracing. It blows away sitka OMs I've previously played. More volume and responsiveness. Although I'm primarily a flatpicker so I guess that would depend on how you play the guitar.

[Shades of Blue]

I had a custom shop 000-28 that I should have never let go. I didn't realize at the time what the Adirondack was actually doing for the guitar. Big pronounced lows and highs, and VOLUME. I haven't played a 000 as good since.

[opencee]

I generally prefer mahogany guitars. I'm a big fan of Martin 18s, though the 000 is my least favorite size of those, though it's just a matter of degree. I lean toward 25.9" scale because I use mostly lowered tunings, so the D and OM models work pretty well for me. Contrary to what I just said, I really like the response of the smaller 0 and 00 sizes. Sound just seems to jump out of them, the shorter scale notwithstanding. The 000 seems the "mushy", as someone said, compromise. Again, it's a matter of degree and only relevant to my ears and playing. If I was to buy a 000-18, I certainly would be looking at customizing it as a GE with Adirondack to better match up with my preferences.

In all my sampling, I have found that I generally prefer the clarity, power, and snap of adirondack tops, though that clarity and note separation can be unforgiving and somewhat daunting to me as a player. Adirondack has caused me to up my game with a little more accuracy.

I pick with bare fingers. Adirondack seems to put a little of that snap back into the softer sound of my bare-fingered picking. Contrary to what some say, my adi top is responsive to a light touch and offers a wide dynamic range.

I have a custom 00-18 with Adirondack top, GE bracing, long scale, and 1/2" deeper body. It's like a mini OM, but with that smaller guitar responsiveness. It really doesn't give up much, if anything, in volume. It projects very nicely. I bought it five years ago, new off the wall, at the now-closed Wildwood Music. It was like it was made with my name on it. I loved it when I bought it. Its responsiveness, tonal and dynamic range has actually improved, though I never expected it. As expected, that little bit of new guitar stridency smoothed right out very quickly.


.

[Mr. Paul]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

Is an Adirondack top really effective toward increasing projection, volume and headroom?

I am leaning toward a purchase of a Custom 000-18 that has an Adi top and Golden Era bracing. I've owned two 000-18's in the past, and played several as well...and have thought several of them (two of those are the ones I owned) sounded "mushy" and like someone had put socks in the sound hole.

I can't play this one before I buy it...but it's being sold by someone I trust, so that's not an issue. Has anybody here had experience with a similarly upgraded 000-18 that can clue me as to the tonal enhancements I'm likely to have with this one vs. the ones I've played in the past?

I love the adi/golden era bracing combo, I have found it to be a sparkling combo ... literally. However, without playing it first, I would be very hesitant to buy a model that I've already owned ... twice ... hoping that different woods/bracing would make a difference.

[jklotz]

I just picked up a used 000-18ge. Mine is 12 years old, so take that into consideration. I also had, just before, a new 000-18 (standard) that I returned because I couldn't deal with the MLO neck. So I might be a good person to give you a comparison.

In case you don't already know, the 000-18ge is just what you described - Addi top and ge bracing (and mod v neck).

IMHO It is more responsive, has more bass and more headroom. The new standard had more sparkle, but this one is more lush, more lower mids. The higher trebbles have more weight to them, and overall it sounds like a bigger guitar (despite being the same size). When I dig in, it has more of that Martin "growl". Course if you like a bright guitar, it may be a challenge for you. For instance, my Eastman E20-OM is a brighter guitar with nowhere near the depth of the bass, but the bass has more definition. Almost like comparing a vintage voiced guitar to a modern one. A small part of that may be the Eastman is about a year old, and the Martin is 12 years old.

My analysis is based on the guitars I've owned and played, so who knows? That one you are considering could be completely different, but that is my take on the differences.

Hope that helped.