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  #16  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:46 AM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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I am crushed that you would insinuate that the common thread tying all of my failures together is myself... Thats preposterous!

It has to be something else.

Gibson! That is who is behind this whole mess... I can smell it!

Its a conspiracy!!
Hahahaha excellent hypothesis! Definitely Gibson.
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  #17  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:09 AM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Ok problem solved. I'm Apple and iPhone guy but this is how it's generally done regardless of OS.

You need to post the DIRECT link to the photo, still using the img bbcode. Your direct link is this: https://cdn.cp.adobe.io/content/2/dcx/c73113a1-885c-4b1f-afb6-f4ce63a6b899/rendition/preview.jpg/version/1/format/jpg/dimension/width/size/1200

To get that link you need to right-click your original adobe link etc and select "open image in new window" or "copy image address" or similar language. Then put that link in between the Img bbcode.



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  #18  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:29 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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Ok problem solved. I'm Apple and iPhone guy but this is how it's generally done regardless of OS.



You need to post the DIRECT link to the photo, still using the img bbcode. Your direct link is this: https://cdn.cp.adobe.io/content/2/dc...idth/size/1200



To get that link you need to right-click your original adobe link etc and select "open image in new window" or "copy image address" or similar language. Then put that link in between the Img bbcode.









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  #19  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:30 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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  #20  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:31 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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  #21  
Old 10-25-2017, 02:32 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2017, 03:21 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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Ok, we have the pics, cheers folks for all the help with that although I still don't quite get it......

To answer a few questions and clarify a few things, I am using the brass plate because it is going to be tricky getting inside this guitar from the soundhole as it is pretty small so I thought it best to beef the plate up.

I agree the neck does look good, but more importantly it feels good (I am no expert but have done a lot of work with wood) however the idea that a branch is more susceptible to humidity changes makes sense.

When I said I would scallop the soundhole braces and upper legs of x brace I was kind of getting at a general reduction of mass without hopefully reducing structural integrity.

But what I really want help with is the idea of no extra braces in the lower bout? Just taper the legs of the x and rely on the linings, tail block and bridge? Even though the top around the lower bout is about 2.2mm?

I haven't used any existing plans or books, just lots of reading on the net and common sense.

I was going to use the white oak for the bridge because it it is by far the hardest hardwood I have available and very little money for this project, however if the general consensus is to change for something else and that it will really make a difference, I will see what I can find locally.

Cheers people
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:39 PM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Ok I like your ingenuity and willingness to try new ideas! Carry on

I think the oak could work as a bridge plate. But if it seems like it's prone to splitting, I'd worry. A slab or rift sawn section would be best I think.

Can you make a 3 or more piece laminate neck using some straight grained oak as a center stringer for instance?

The problem with lightening up the upper bout bracing is that this is precisely where guitars absorb a lot of the stress/strain.

With small guitars, I THINK (but do not know experimentally) you could get away with less top braces, such as the finger braces and tone bars. Early Martin's only had one finger brace on each side and there are boutique builders who still follow that on 0 size bodies. The Taylor gs mini does not have tone bars but that can lead to top seam separation (happened on mine).

If you are thinking of making the guitar with a scale length shorter than tradition, then you will have even less tension on the top and thus can get away with less structural components.

That's what I'm thinking anyhoo! Good luck.

Sam
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:02 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam VanLaningham View Post
Ok I like your ingenuity and willingness to try new ideas! Carry on



I think the oak could work as a bridge plate. But if it seems like it's prone to splitting, I'd worry. A slab or rift sawn section would be best I think.



Can you make a 3 or more piece laminate neck using some straight grained oak as a center stringer for instance?



The problem with lightening up the upper bout bracing is that this is precisely where guitars absorb a lot of the stress/strain.



With small guitars, I THINK (but do not know experimentally) you could get away with less top braces, such as the finger braces and tone bars. Early Martin's only had one finger brace on each side and there are boutique builders who still follow that on 0 size bodies. The Taylor gs mini does not have tone bars but that can lead to top seam separation (happened on mine).



If you are thinking of making the guitar with a scale length shorter than tradition, then you will have even less tension on the top and thus can get away with less structural components.



That's what I'm thinking anyhoo! Good luck.



Sam


Thanks sam, I was planning to use the oak for the actual bridge because it's the best thing I have to hand but I'm going to go to a local timber supplier and check if they have anything better. I think the bracing I have in the upper bout is fairly substantial for the guitar size especially compared to a more traditional sized instrument, the distances between major structural supports are so much smaller.

In terms of seam separation, how about an Edwinson style brace running from the centre of the x to the tail block over the bridge plate to protect the seam and stop the top from going in to an 's' belly?

Kieran
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  #25  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:46 AM
Sam VanLaningham Sam VanLaningham is offline
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Well you're already above my pay grade because I build pretty close to the pre-war and classical designs, with only minor variations. I'm on my 8th acoustic.....

When I referenced the neck stringer, I'm just thinking that if you love the cherry branch, maybe you can strengthen it with an oak or maple etc stringer?

A little bit of a belly up behind and belly down in front of bridge is considered a good thing by many. The guitars that I have with it are great. I'm sure anything to fortify seam is good. But Taylor went for it without one so you can always go for that and hope for best.

I think other people with more experience will chime in, possibly, such as printer2 who does lots of cool experimentation.

Sam
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:28 AM
Truckjohn Truckjohn is offline
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I would just go with the neck you have. Its already carved. May as well give it a crack.

On the tone bars and finger braces - go ahead and add 1 tone bar and 1 finger brace on each side. Its a very thin cedar top - and cedar already tends toward soft/light.

Bracing wise - how tall is it now? I would shoot for no taller than 1/2"/12mm for a guitar this small. Taper the braces to nothing in the lower bout before they get to the linings.

Be sure to cap the X-brace joint with a scrap of brace wood. 2mm thick is sufficient.

On the bridge. Since you are already this far along - just use it. If you have a problem in the future - you can replace it.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:33 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truckjohn View Post
I would just go with the neck you have. Its already carved. May as well give it a crack.



On the tone bars and finger braces - go ahead and add 1 tone bar and 1 finger brace on each side. Its a very thin cedar top - and cedar already tends toward soft/light.



Bracing wise - how tall is it now? I would shoot for no taller than 1/2"/12mm for a guitar this small. Taper the braces to nothing in the lower bout before they get to the linings.



Be sure to cap the X-brace joint with a scrap of brace wood. 2mm thick is sufficient.



On the bridge. Since you are already this far along - just use it. If you have a problem in the future - you can replace it.


Cheers john,
At the end of the day it's an experiment and I have very little money to throw at it, which is half the fun trying to make something out of what's available, having said that it would be great to end up with something playable as opposed to a pile of kindling.

I now have a few good ideas to mull over and plan the next phase, that will not be any day soon but if anybody has any suggestions or further ideas for consideration, please chip in.
Right now my hands are full.
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:50 PM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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Cheers john,
At the end of the day it's an experiment and I have very little money to throw at it, which is half the fun trying to make something out of what's available, having said that it would be great to end up with something playable as opposed to a pile of kindling.

I now have a few good ideas to mull over and plan the next phase, that will not be any day soon but if anybody has any suggestions or further ideas for consideration, please chip in.
Right now my hands are full.


Forgot to say john,
The bracing is currently about 16mm high, so definitively remove some material, I like the target of 12mm. Then tapered to nothing and yes to the cap over the x
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:25 PM
Truckjohn Truckjohn is offline
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Thats great stuff right there. What it's all about.

Finish wise - when you get there....
I recommend a wiping varnish. Quick, easy, durable, and works great on a guitar.
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  #30  
Old 11-05-2017, 09:49 AM
Kieran Kieran is offline
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Managed to make a little progress. I have roughly cut my dried bone for a nut,saddle and a reinforcement piece for my bridge plate. Wow does it stink when you take a grinder to a butchers bone!
Next step is to let the bone dry some more for about a week then soak in acetone for a couple of weeks with regular changes of fresh acetone until the bone is fully degreased.

I have carved the soundboard braces but still can't decide wether to add a tone bar and finger braces or a flying brace over the bridge plate. I am tempted to not add any further braces. The tap tone sounds pretty good to me although being so small I can really tell how much of the bass and sustain I have lost compared to when I first joined the top halves. Plus trying to voice your first guitar is a somewhat ridiculous prospect as I have no idea what I'm doing and no reference points but I am having fun.




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