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Old 06-07-2022, 02:04 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Default Wood stain compatibility with lacquer: Iodine vs Acrylic lacquer

Dear All,

Just completed the tasks with shaving neck and got a trouble with the Acrylic lacquer which still remains quite soft after 3 weeks of covering the neck.
The store where I purchased this Acrylic lacquer spray says that this might be the case of another causes, wood stain for instance....
I have used a basic 5% Iodine from a local pharmacy as a wood stain due to a beautiful look, so I have to re-sand the neck and try with other types of wood stain......

The question: does anyone have used Iodine as a wood stain either Acrylic lacquer sprays for finishing the instruments? Any success, troubles, comments??

This is how the neck looks covered with Iodine:

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Old 06-07-2022, 02:17 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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I always use a sealer under my finish. It is a barrier against compatibility issues like the one you may be having, and also increases the bond between the finish and the wood. My usual choice is Zinsser's "SealCoat".
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Old 06-07-2022, 02:31 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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That looks close to the brown mahogany water soluble aniline that I have used since the late-1970's. No compatibility issues with either automotive acrylic lacquer, nitrocellulose lacquer (multiple brands), or Zinsser Seal Coat dewaxed shellac.
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Old 06-07-2022, 02:55 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
That looks close to the brown mahogany water soluble aniline that I have used since the late-1970's. No compatibility issues with either automotive acrylic lacquer, nitrocellulose lacquer (multiple brands), or Zinsser Seal Coat dewaxed shellac.

Hi there,

Thanks for your quick feedback!

The neck seems to be made of maple, it was too light (nearly white) and I wanted to make it as darker as possible, so the Iodine was the best idea....

I tried to check what components are in the Mahogany Water Soluble Aniline but found no details, I assume it is made of a basic wood remnants/products while the Iodine has 4 basic components, 3 of those 4 are unknown for having any chemical effects with acrylic lacquers:
Iodine, Potassium iodide, ethanol, water.

It would be good to hear more on such a potential negative effects between the Iodine and Acrylics ........
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Old 06-07-2022, 05:34 PM
Fathand Fathand is offline
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I don't know about iodine but Fiebings leather dye is tried and true by many people, comes in multiple, mixable colours and at $7 a bottle is pretty economical, maybe cheaper than iodine. Wipes on easy, dries fast and I have not heard of it being incompatible with anything.
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Old 06-07-2022, 06:34 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Originally Posted by Fathand View Post
I don't know about iodine but Fiebings leather dye is tried and true by many people, comes in multiple, mixable colours and at $7 a bottle is pretty economical, maybe cheaper than iodine. Wipes on easy, dries fast and I have not heard of it being incompatible with anything.
Very interesting, thanks! Will search and check with those who used it in combination with Acrylic lacquers.....
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Old 06-08-2022, 10:29 AM
Fathand Fathand is offline
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Very interesting, thanks! Will search and check with those who used it in combination with Acrylic lacquers.....
This is the stuff, https://tandyleather.com/products/fi...f980d997&_ss=r

I did use it once to colour shellac under an acrylic lacquer with no problems but it was more shellac than dye. It works well under Tru Oil and Nitro and I know others have used it under shellac. Commonly used for rubbed sunbursts. It is an alcohol based aniline dye is my understanding.
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Old 06-08-2022, 01:41 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fathand View Post
This is the stuff, https://tandyleather.com/products/fi...f980d997&_ss=r

I did use it once to colour shellac under an acrylic lacquer with no problems but it was more shellac than dye. It works well under Tru Oil and Nitro and I know others have used it under shellac. Commonly used for rubbed sunbursts. It is an alcohol based aniline dye is my understanding.

Thank you for the notes!
Well, my thought is that the cases are totally different with stains, lacquers etc..... the result depends on the right combination of the materials used as well as on the particular producers of these materials.
I am not sure also of the lacquer I used, the manufacturer says their acrylic lacquers are bit softer.... sounds strange to me.
I will wait for 2 more weeks to check the finish on the potential longer polymerization time, then remove the acrylic lacquer and test this new Yacht varnish which is the most solid among all others by Kudo.
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Last edited by Schertler; 06-09-2022 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 06-09-2022, 02:27 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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Lacquers are not all that sensitive to the surface chemistry when it comes to curing. Solvent evaporation can be speeded up by placing the guitar in front of a fan. Varnishes are a different story. The main issues I have with lacquer are adhesion and color bleeding.
Modern lacquers can he quite soft, due to the plasticizers added to minimize cold checking.
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Old 06-09-2022, 03:07 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Arnold View Post
Lacquers are not all that sensitive to the surface chemistry when it comes to curing. Solvent evaporation can be speeded up by placing the guitar in front of a fan. Varnishes are a different story. The main issues I have with lacquer are adhesion and color bleeding.
Modern lacquers can he quite soft, due to the plasticizers added to minimize cold checking.


This is what one of the local stores did recommend on Iodine usage, so that is why I started learning more on stains and lacquers compatibility.
Just re-checked the finish today, and it seems a bit stronger but anyway still soft and deforming/ruining easily .....
Many people comment on the spray-cans and of their lower characteristics, but I can not afford investing into professional gear and 2K lacquers. However, some luthiers do recommend 4-6 weeks polymerization time even with high-quality 2K lacquers, they note this is a minimum standard time to achieve a decent result with finish.
I have got purchased Yacht lacquer, the strongest in the model/type lines, hope this works as expected.
I assume, that todays lacquers in spray-cans are long-term polymerization, but this MUST BE be indicated on packaging/cans instead of 2 hours of full curing time as it is given on my acrylic can...... this would help to avoid such a trouble which I am facing now..... :-)
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Last edited by Schertler; 06-09-2022 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 06-09-2022, 03:40 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Marine varnishes are slow drying and intended to remain flexible for as long as possible, not an ideal quality for our purposes. I have used a couple of brands and regretted it. I have also used 9 brands of interior oil varnish, intended for indoor cabinets and furniture. All produced better results than any Marine Varnish. My two biggest complaints re marine varnish are that the neck can remain sticky to the left hand for months or years, and the tone of the guitar is noticeably dull and lacking in overtones. The opposite of crisp.
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Old 06-09-2022, 04:02 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Marine varnishes are slow drying and intended to remain flexible for as long as possible, not an ideal quality for our purposes. I have used a couple of brands and regretted it. I have also used 9 brands of interior oil varnish, intended for indoor cabinets and furniture. All produced better results than any Marine Varnish. My two biggest complaints re marine varnish are that the neck can remain sticky to the left hand for months or years, and the tone of the guitar is noticeably dull and lacking in overtones. The opposite of crisp.

Many thanks! Was this a single case or you experimented with different yacht-type lacquers??
Actually, the company of these spray-lacquers recommended me to use their nitrocellulose furniture lacquer for the guitar but I thought I would better use the most strong.....
Well, I will purchase one can of that nitrocellulose too these days, then choose between the two.
I do need to finish only the neck, I am not sure this might affect the tone, even potentially.....
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Old 06-11-2022, 06:03 PM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Got found several sources on the search of 'Iodine wood stain', and all of those note of a beautiful look Iodine adds to woods. And, then I found the real case telling of the result, here it is:


"""" I tried Iodine as a stain quite a few years ago. It gave a beautiful effect at the time. However, when exposed to light, the colour faded to leave no sign it had ever been stained. (A couple of weeks.) How has everyone else got on?? """"

So, the question is answered: You should avoid Iodine as a wood stain as it fully disappears under the light.
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Old 06-11-2022, 09:00 PM
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Look into the definition of "Mordent". Many natural stains become more durable with the use of it. I know nothing of iodine as a stain.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:28 AM
Schertler Schertler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Look into the definition of "Mordent". Many natural stains become more durable with the use of it. I know nothing of iodine as a stain.


Two similar words "Mordent" (Melisma....) and "Mordant"......
Which term did you mean in relation with wood stains??
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