Age-ism. Have you experienced it?

[tommieboy]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Luckily I chose to play jazz. When my hair finished turning gray, people started to take me seriously, figuring I knew what I was doing.

Joke was on them

Tommy

[CityPickn]

All the time and I'm only 40. Once they see the grey hair the college girls all of sudden say I'm too old.

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by CityPickn

All the time and I'm only 40. Once they see the grey hair the college girls all of sudden say I'm too old.

And I'd say they were too young.

[CityPickn]

Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks

And I'd say they were too young.

20+ . I'm only 40, myself.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by CityPickn

All the time and I'm only 40. Once they see the grey hair the college girls all of sudden say I'm too old.

Well you could always dye it hot lime green
But actually that's called "natural selection" not age-ism

[CityPickn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Well you could always dye it hot lime green
But actually that's called "natural selection" not age-ism

It's called I keep getting older and they stay the same age.

[fmbstrummer]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Wow! We had the best!

Fmb

[12barBill]

[devellis]

These things are sad and unfortunate but not new.


The world of performance and entertainment isn't a strict meritocracy, to put it mildly. People vote with their dollars, feet, and preconceptions and not always fairly. Even when I was young (I'm 75 now), I generally didn't go for overly slick, highly-produced, glamorized entertainment. I liked one or few performers doing pared-down arrangements of songs or tunes, preferably on acoustic instruments. (The one exception was when I saw Donavan live in college and he did all sorts of kitchy stuff like throw flowers into the audience, but it really worked for me, oddly enough.) My intolerance of glitz was actually a form of prejudice in its own right, I suppose. If someone came onstage and looked like he or she had given too much thought to their wardrobe, they lost points with me. Fancy hairstyle? Forget it! But I could be won over if they performed well. And most of my friends preferred an over-the-top show to a really solid but low-key performance. I stopped going to large concerts when I came to feel that these events were more about "being a part of something" than actually listening to music. Again, sort of a prejudice on my part.



I guess my point is that most audiences like energy and youth and visual appeal. The may prefer those things over perspective and wisdom and accumulated talent, even. Not all audiences, but some. Venue operators make calls based on what they guess is driving their patrons and perhaps on what they hear from same. That information is gathered in unreliable ways, but it's likely what they use. As a result, some very unfair calls get made. But unfortunately, fairness just isn't a part of any of this.

[Yrksman]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

This topic got me thinking about genre longevity. We're living in the 2020's. Music from the 1960's, 70's and 80's is now 60, 50 and 40 years old.

Back in the 70's how many band specializing in the music from the 1910's, 20's and 30's were regularly gigging at clubs and restaurants? Sure we still had Lawrence Welk on TV. But John Denver, Glen Campbell and Johnny Cash had their own prime time shows as well.

We old fart boomers still hold inordinate sway over entertainment that previous old fart generations never enjoyed. There are many reasons contributing to this including huge changes in the music and entertainment industries, technology, improving (up until recently) lifespans and quality of life, etc.

But ageism? Yes I'm sure it happens, but IMO there's never been a better time to be an old fart!

Wise words. Scott Joplin seemed like ancient history in the 60s a mere 50 years after his prime. Think Paul Simon, Bowie, James Taylor, Don McLean, Joni Mitchell……..Beatles even further back….

[QuestionMark]

I doubt Willie Nelson has any age discrimination going on when getting gigs or playing gigs. No reason the OP should feel there is any either in his case. It simply serves no purpose and can be self defeating. It’s kind of one of those things that if you think it is present, you think it is present. All one can really do whatever age is to focus on playing the music the best it can be. The rest is out of one’s control and who knows what people think or don’t think…so it’s important to not let one’s own imagination and fears tell us otherwise. And, to keep on keeping on.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[CityPickn]

Originally Posted by QuestionMark

I doubt Willie Nelson has any age discrimination going on when getting gigs or playing gigs. No reason the OP should feel there is any either in his case. It simply serves no purpose and can be self defeating. It’s kind of one of those things that if you think it is present, you think it is present. All one can really do whatever age is to focus on playing the music the best it can be. The rest is out of one’s control and who knows what people think or don’t think…so it’s important to not let one’s own imagination and fears tell us otherwise. And, to keep on keeping on.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

Willie Nelson is also a human ATM machine compared to OP. Bottom line is performing is Show Business and has very little to do with the quality of your music. Look matter. They always have and always will.

[QuestionMark]

Originally Posted by CityPickn

Willie Nelson is also a human ATM machine compared to OP. Bottom line is performing is Show Business and has very little to do with the quality of your music. Look matter. They always have and always will.

Wow, you’re basically saying Willie Nelson’s music is not what people like,but rather his looks. And, that Willie’s vocals and guitar playing have nothing to do with people liking him, but rather his show biz performing. And, you’re basically throwing out that I wrote a very encouraging argument to the OP that he shouldn’t focus on the possibility of ageism but rather he should focus on playing his music the best possible and keep on keeping on with it…meaning keep believing in himself and his music…and keep trying to gig and not get bogged down by fears of his age, using Willie as an inspiration to keep on keeping on and focus on playing music no matter what age.

I stand firm that I gave the OP good advice. (From a 69 year old musician who keeps on keeping on following the same advice I gave him. )

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

[Wonderwall]

Can you post a sample of your songs, maybe on YouTube, compared to a video with performers similar to the young performers who replaced you? Sometimes it’s the quality of the music performance rather than the age the songs were from. Do you think you’re more talented and have better stage presence (for example, because of your experience) than the younger players? I’ve found many young players to be superior in skill due to the efficiency of guitar lessons these days.

[dnf777]

Just a friendly reminder, as a few comments are starting to heat up. This is a very personal issue for many, so please be considerate and think before clicking.

1. Rule #1 - BE NICE!: Please consider this forum as the virtual living room of its owner. Since inception in 2000, J.R. Rogers’ vision has been to offer a safe, respectful space for members of all ages to discuss our mutual admiration for all things guitar. Don’t say anything to anyone you wouldn’t say in person, whether publicly in posts or via private message (PM). It really isn’t that hard to communicate with respect.