Tenor Banjo

[Teleplucker]

After spending a few weeks in Ireland I am intrigued with the idea of getting a tenor banjo to have fun with. Does anyone have experience with these?
Looking at a few on line shops there seem to be plenty “vintage “ tenor banjos that are very reasonably priced. Are the vintage examples a better starting point than the new ones that are available?

[stevo58]

Yes. You’ll get a far superior instrument for less money.

A Deering Sierra tenor will cost you $2500 new. For $1000 you should be able to get a Vega Tub-a-phone, a Paramount Model A, possibly a Weymann, any of which will outclass the Deering. Check the Banjo Hangout classifieds.

Make sure, if the neck is held with a piece of wood (the “dowel stick”) that the neck angle is ok. A dowel stick is nothing you want to mess with, as I learned from experience.

I play jazz, not Irish, and Irish uses a different tuning and heavier strings. But any tenor can be set up either way. You may have to widen the nut slots. I’ve also read Irish players prefer the shorter scale 17-fret necks, rather than the longer scale 19 fret necks usually used for jazz. I’m just spouting internet knowledge here. I’m sure there are Irish players who can help you.


Steven

[jacot23]

I bought a Gold Tone last summer thinking I'd enjoy it. I was wrong, I'm a Clawhammer guy and don't. The banjo itself is pretty nice and sounds great. Is it as good as a vintage one? Probably not. Will it get you started for under a grand? Absolutely.

Myself I don't like Deering banjos, so I'd definitely go vintage before dropping any dough on a deering.

[stevo58]

Right now Gryphon has a Paramount, Elderly has a Bacon Serenader and a Vegaphone, and Smakula has a Bacon style C, all for $1000 or less. The Bacon at Smakula is already set up for Irish.

Steven

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by stevo58

...I play jazz, not Irish, and Irish uses a different tuning and heavier strings. But any tenor can be set up either way...

FWIW a 19-fret tenor banjo can be an extremely versatile instrument - and while jazz and Irish tunings predominate, there's more than one way to make these babies sing:

• Traditional ("jazz") tuning: CGDA like the mandola/viola, and a quick transition if you're a fiddler used to tuning/fingering in fifths
• Irish: GDAE (occasionally GDAD) one octave below mandolin/fiddle, gives a thick "plunky" sound that can either stand alone or provide a tonal contrast to a rhythm guitar, and requires a dedicated set of heavier strings
• "Chicago": DGBE like the upper four strings of the guitar, popular among many first-timers for its short learning curve, also requires a dedicated set of heavier strings
• Open tunings: only limited by your imagination
• Drop-G uke: GCEA like the tenor uke in low-G, this almost-forgotten tuning enjoyed some popularity with 1920's uke players looking to cash in on the popularity of jazz; virtually unknown today (TMK Chuck Romanoff of Schooner Fare - from whom I learned about it - is the sole active proponent), it's surprisingly versatile in both tone and application - I've used it (on a Deering Boston tenor) for everything from chanteys to Irish to traditional/neo-trad folk to vaudeville to country (try fingerpicking this one and raise some eyebrows among the 5-string guys), and although I have other 4-, 5-, and 6-strings this one is my grab-&-go whenever I have an unspecified call for "banjo"...

[stevo58]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FWIW a 19-fret tenor banjo can be an extremely versatile instrument - and while jazz and Irish tunings predominate, there's more than one way to make these babies sing:

The great Elmer Snowden tuned his a fifth below standard. Cynthia Sayer’s recent transcriptions show his brilliance. Even in jazz, there’s something to be said for treading lightly on the high A.

Jimmy Mazzy and Don Vappie immediately come to mind as jazz players whose deep knowledge of blues informs their jazz playing. But it’s not Irish. These two are particular favorites who show what the instrument is capable of. There are many others.

[SolidSpruceTop]

Tenor banjos are GREAT if you have a group to play with, but by yourself nah it's not worth it. I sold mine after just a few weeks because I had no use for it and it was soooo loud.

[stevo58]

Originally Posted by SolidSpruceTop

Tenor banjos are GREAT if you have a group to play with, but by yourself nah it's not worth it. I sold mine after just a few weeks because I had no use for it and it was soooo loud.

Volume is a question of technique. My Silver Bell-style goes from head-crushingly loud to very quiet. I also have a wide tonal range based on where and how I pick.

As far as solo, a top player could do it with no problem of course. As a rule I always play with at least one other. Check out Jimmy Mazzy’s duo wit Eli Newberger (tuba) “Shake It Down.” It's not missing anything.

But like anything, you have to put in the time.

[Maryc-k]

Generally volume can be tamped down with a rolled t-shirt or small piece of foam between the head and the down that runs through the back of the banjo.

If you are playing a resonator-backed tenor banjo, simply remove the resonator.

[H165]

If I were seeking a "new player" vintage tenor right now I'd buy this. Is it beat up? yes, however... Is it made by Gibson? Yes. Is it vintage? Yes (100 years old). Can it be built into a better banjo with commonly available parts (tone ring, flange, resonator, bluegrass neck, additional coordiantor rod)? Yes. Does it have a danged useless "perch pole" stick? NO! Is it a darned good banjo only needing a setup and a new head? yes. If I didn't already have a couple almost exactly like this, I'd buy it myself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12546589786...Bk9SR77C8tDXYA

If you want to go wild right off the bat, consider making an offer on this one (19-fret):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14452161879...Bk9SR6bp5tHXYA

[casualmusic]

A solid inexpensive starter option is the $250 GoldTone AC4 or AC4-IT available in local and online stores.

The AC4 worked well enough in GDAE Irish tuning that I bought a second to try out alternate tunings.

The AC-1 5 string version won a NAMM best of show award.

Cheers


https://goldtonemusicgroup.com/goldt...string&sort=az

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Teleplucker

After spending a few weeks in Ireland I am intrigued with the idea of getting a tenor banjo to have fun with. Does anyone have experience with these?
Looking at a few on line shops there seem to be plenty “vintage “ tenor banjos that are very reasonably priced. Are the vintage examples a better starting point than the new ones that are available?

Yeah. I'm sorry to say it, but there's almost no point in anybody making production tenor banjos at this point in time. They were hugely popular once upon a time, and now that they're not that any more, there's plenty of very well made top quality professional grade TBs from fifty+ years ago just gathering dust. Buy one of those, & put it out of its misery.

[packmule]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Yeah. I'm sorry to say it, but there's almost no point in anybody making production tenor banjos at this point in time. They were hugely popular once upon a time, and now that they're not that any more, there's plenty of very well made top quality professional grade TBs from fifty+ years ago just gathering dust. Buy one of those, & put it out of its misery.

Long time tenor banjo player from Ireland here: While I see Frank's point regarding the popularity of the tenor banjo in the States, there is a point in making production tenor banjos for the irish traditional music market - over here we have Clareen Banjos and Emerald Banjos making new instruments, and until he passed away a couple of years ago Dave Boyle was one of the most respected tenor banjo builders. Jim Patton over in Liverpool was making wonderful tenor banjos up until his retirement a few years ago. That said trends in popularity change everything - having sat through watching nearly 3 hours of the 15-18 year old age group for tenor banjo in the All Ireland finals a couple of weeks ago the banjo of choice for those kids was various iterations of the old Epiphone Recording series - as far as I recall ALL the competitors were playing vintage banjos with only one kid playing a Dave Boyle vs. going back some years you would've seen the kids playing Clareens, Emeralds and Dave Boyles with less of the vintage banjos on show, so an interesting turn around in popularity. Most of the biggest names in irish traditional music who play tenor banjo are playing Epiphones (though may also have a high end Clareen, Dave Boyle, JP or Emerald in their arsenal) and many of those kids would be taking lessons from those folks so it's not surprising to see their popularity.

Going back to the OP's question, if you're looking to get a decent tenor banjo and not spend top dollar, I'd go for a well set up vintage 19 fret tenor banjo over affordable new tenor banjos such as Goldtones or the Deering Goodtime series. Nothing wrong with either of them but sound wise they don't do much for me. A good source for vintage tenor banjos that are well set up for playing in GDAE tuning would be the Trad Banjo website (they're a US business that specialises in restoring vintage tenor banjos and setting them up in GDAE for playing irish music). The banjos are well set up, reasonably priced and Dan, who runs the shop is the salt of the earth.

For some reason in the States people think that Irish tenor banjo players prefer 17 fret tenor banjos - couldn't be further from the truth, even kids play 19 fret tenor banjos over here. You will rarely see a pro playing a 17 fret tenor banjo, the few that come to mind would be the late Barney McKenna RIP who switched from 19 fret to 17 fret in his later years due to health issues, and Angelina Carberry - otherwise it's 19 fret tenor banjos all around. Good ones are easier to source, things like cases for them are easier to source etc. I prefer the string tension on 19 fret tenors when tuned GDAE vs. the feel of 17 fret tenors in GDAE.

[Teleplucker]

Originally Posted by packmule

Long time tenor banjo player from Ireland here: While I see Frank's point regarding the popularity of the tenor banjo in the States, there is a point in making production tenor banjos for the irish traditional music market - over here we have Clareen Banjos and Emerald Banjos making new instruments, and until he passed away a couple of years ago Dave Boyle was one of the most respected tenor banjo builders. Jim Patton over in Liverpool was making wonderful tenor banjos up until his retirement a few years ago. That said trends in popularity change everything - having sat through watching nearly 3 hours of the 15-18 year old age group for tenor banjo in the All Ireland finals a couple of weeks ago the banjo of choice for those kids was various iterations of the old Epiphone Recording series - as far as I recall ALL the competitors were playing vintage banjos with only one kid playing a Dave Boyle vs. going back some years you would've seen the kids playing Clareens, Emeralds and Dave Boyles with less of the vintage banjos on show, so an interesting turn around in popularity. Most of the biggest names in irish traditional music who play tenor banjo are playing Epiphones (though may also have a high end Clareen, Dave Boyle, JP or Emerald in their arsenal) and many of those kids would be taking lessons from those folks so it's not surprising to see their popularity.

Going back to the OP's question, if you're looking to get a decent tenor banjo and not spend top dollar, I'd go for a well set up vintage 19 fret tenor banjo over affordable new tenor banjos such as Goldtones or the Deering Goodtime series. Nothing wrong with either of them but sound wise they don't do much for me. A good source for vintage tenor banjos that are well set up for playing in GDAE tuning would be the Trad Banjo website (they're a US business that specialises in restoring vintage tenor banjos and setting them up in GDAE for playing irish music). The banjos are well set up, reasonably priced and Dan, who runs the shop is the salt of the earth.

For some reason in the States people think that Irish tenor banjo players prefer 17 fret tenor banjos - couldn't be further from the truth, even kids play 19 fret tenor banjos over here. You will rarely see a pro playing a 17 fret tenor banjo, the few that come to mind would be the late Barney McKenna RIP who switched from 19 fret to 17 fret in his later years due to health issues, and Angelina Carberry - otherwise it's 19 fret tenor banjos all around. Good ones are easier to source, things like cases for them are easier to source etc. I prefer the string tension on 19 fret tenors when tuned GDAE vs. the feel of 17 fret tenors in GDAE.

Thanks for this info, it is very helpful.

[The Bard Rocks]

For vintage banjos of all kinds, the best place I know of to find them is Bernunzio's in Rochester NY.