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  #16  
Old 09-28-2022, 02:08 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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I have a Peterson strobe tuner on my phone. I bought a sweetened tuning package for it that does this. I only use it when thing seem really off, otherwise the regular tuner and my ears work ok.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2022, 02:45 PM
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KevinH KevinH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
B1: Hi, I've never seen this system. Do you have a link of info you could send that would explain it more thoroughly? Looks interesting.

Thanks,
Scott
I believe he explains it in this video:



It'll make you sound just like JT

Last edited by KevinH; 09-28-2022 at 02:54 PM.
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2022, 03:25 PM
Deliberate1 Deliberate1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
I believe he explains it in this video:



It'll make you sound just like JT
Ya, for me, just about as much as wearing a hat like that.
David
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  #19  
Old 09-28-2022, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
B1: Hi, I've never seen this system. Do you have a link of info you could send that would explain it more thoroughly? Looks interesting.

Thanks,
Scott
Here’s where I found it:

https://youtu.be/V2xnXArjPts

Oh, it looks like others have rushed to your aid! Gotta love AGF.
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  #20  
Old 09-28-2022, 03:58 PM
dspoel dspoel is offline
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I love the B string on my CEO-7. Sounds magical. In isolation, that is.
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  #21  
Old 09-28-2022, 04:09 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliberate1 View Post
Is it possible that the tuning machine is slipping? I can't think of any other cause. If so, does one just tighten the screw?
Thanks for the help.
David
Yes, tighten the screw a little at a time, play, and hear what happens. I've had this issue occur on a couple of guitars even with high-quality tuners.
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Last edited by SpruceTop; 09-30-2022 at 08:40 AM.
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  #22  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:23 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Is this a tuning issue, or a string issue, or a guitar issue?

Tuning ? I tune my B string by fretting the D note on the 3rd fret, that compensates for the fretting pressure when chording.

Also, is the string winding around the tuning machine capstan slipping?

String ? I had a bunch of string sets with the B string winding (that 1/2" after the barrel) that slowly came unwound. Check it out.

Guitar ? how is the bridgeplate ? that tine bit of maple that the string barrel lodges against, wear out eventually. Luthier job but fixable.

Of course it might be that you are not lodging the pstring barrel abainst the nridge pin properly - easily done (wrong).
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  #23  
Old 09-28-2022, 05:42 PM
Dlew919 Dlew919 is offline
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‘There are no B strings in heaven’ - John Hartford.
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  #24  
Old 09-28-2022, 07:06 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Yeah, for me, too, the B string is the one that always seems out of tune. The article that Scott referenced, I think, does a good job of explaining why the B string, in particular, is so often a problem.

I often tune the B string by ear to the chord that represents the key of the song. The D chord, in particular, tends to make the B string sound out of tune sharp even when it's properly tuned using the equal temperament system. I routinely slightly flatten the B string pitch for many songs until it sounds right.

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  #25  
Old 09-28-2022, 07:49 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TennesseeWalker View Post
if the bridge pin is inserted and the ball end is not snug up against the bridge plate before bringing up to pitch, that can occur.
That's the most likely reason. The second most likely reason is a poor job of winding the string on the peg. But the string seating itself on either end is likely the issue and it will eventually run out of room to move and hold steady.
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  #26  
Old 09-28-2022, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deliberate1 View Post
Ya, for me, just about as much as wearing a hat like that.
David
That is a nice hat. And I'd really like to get a giant tuner like that.
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  #27  
Old 09-29-2022, 08:06 AM
EZYPIKINS EZYPIKINS is offline
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First, I find, it helps immensely, to have action and intonation set as close to perfect as possible.

Does an open string tuned to pitch. Note true when pressed on the first fret?

Quality tuners are a must as well. Even quality tuners can wear out. Some offer lifetime replacement warranty.

When I change strings, even just tuning at any given time. I stretch into pitch.

I tune the string then stretch. If it goes flat. tune up a bit.

If it's a hare sharp, I won't reach for the tuning button. I stretch. Many times, you will stretch the sharp out.

When string stops going flat, your good to go.

Temperature will have an affect on this as well. Warmer temp will cause flattening. When it gets cold, strings will go sharp.
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  #28  
Old 09-29-2022, 08:43 AM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is online now
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This post is not about the slipping B string issue of the OP but the wonky sounding B string issue others have mentioned in this thread:

One cause: Notes move! Well, in just intonation notes move. So the frequency of a perfect B note played in a G chord (where it is the 3rd of the scale), is slightly different to the frequency of a perfect B note in an E chord (where it is the 5th of the scale). Equal temperament tries to rectify this (equal temperament frets and equal temperament electronic tuners) but unfortunately no one told your ears!!!! Consequently, we can feel a bit torn as to where that open string should sit - and get annoyed when the tuner says it's "right" and our ears say it's "wrong".

I build and play my fretted zithers in just intonation, so I'm sort of used to the sound of perfect note blends - so I just grit my teeth and come up with the best tuning compromise that I can when playing guitar. I think that's why I like the TC Unitune tuner, because it has a margin of error. So, I can get all the green lights on (tuners happy) within the bounds of "tweaking" (my ears are happy) - it's a win, win!

Another cause: This one sounds a bit strange, but compensated saddles can make the b note sound bad. Not the compensation factor itself, but the shape and position of the saddle top string release point. On most compensated saddles the B string runs over a narrow shelf at the back of the saddle. On a couple of guitars I have dropped in the traditional rounded topped saddle where all the strings, including the B string, come off a rounded top center of the saddle. On the 3 guitars so far that I have made this change the B string timbre has become more fundamental and rounder - less twangy (that's a technical term). I don't actually need B string compensation for my playing style, so losing it is no big deal (guitars never used to have it anyway). Buying or shaping a traditional round topped saddle to drop in is no big expense to test it out. And I note that the new issue 50s series Gibsons have gone back to this style of saddle.
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  #29  
Old 09-29-2022, 08:53 AM
nickv6 nickv6 is offline
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I don't get the whole James T tuning thing. Here's why (only my reasoning and it turns out I'm fallible..)

First he says the vaguaries vary instrument to instrument...so,why would his adjustment work on my guitar?
Second he says watch me tune low e to minus 10. The machine shows a highly fluctuating cent measurement, noticably not on ten and he moves on. This is with every string!
Thirdly, any "sweetening" of an ET tuning is a move away from ET. So it may be excellent for playing in one shape (say d) but will be correspondingly sour in another shape. That's why ET is as it is, to allow playing in any key with acceptable dissonance.
I believe JT uses a capo and plays in the d shape alot. But if I don't?
Just my thoughts
Nick
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  #30  
Old 09-29-2022, 09:18 AM
nickv6 nickv6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
Here's a long-winded explanation of why the B string sucks.

https://travelingguitarist.com/b-str...%25%20accurate.
I urge you to treat this information with caution. For instance he says Et will sound weird in some keys. But the whole purpose of ET is that all keys have the same errors.
He talks of just intonation ...440 becomes 880 in an octave. But that is only true in discussing what scientists call "a perfect string". A perfect string does not actually exist in this world. All strings in use have a tension and a mass. This throws off the ideal perfect doubling. Which leads me to...
He says to tune using a piano. But that is a bad way to tune a guitar. Because piano strings are under massive tension and are far thicker than guitar strings, the reality of tuning is that the higher E will be probably 2 cents sharper than the lower E. Each piano is different but if you want to tune a guitar to a piano pick one note, say, A and tune that to the piano. Then tune the guitar on it's own with no further reference to the piano.
As you go up a piano keyboard you will find that the notes measure quite sharp compared with the theoretical, mathmatical number predicted.
His explanation and references to Just Intonation show a lack of understanding.
Nick
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