Tonedexter f/w v1.62, anybody using it yet?

[shufflebeat]

I'm not in a position to update just yet, to be honest I hadn't even realised we'd gone beyond 1.60, so just casting out to see if anyone's ahead of me and can comment.

I've always had a problem with the character readout being a bit flakey so nice to see that getting some attention. I've not had a use for "step up" but might try again now that we have "step up/down".

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

I'm not in a position to update just yet, to be honest I hadn't even realised we'd gone beyond 1.60, so just casting out to see if anyone's ahead of me and can comment.

I've always had a problem with the character readout being a bit flakey so nice to see that getting some attention. I've not had a use for "step up" but might try again now that we have "step up/down".

Hi sb

I have updated to the latest version. When I bought it, my unit arrived with firmware version 1.54, so when I updated I didn't see any sense in not updating to the latest version.

I've had zero issues with it.

[shufflebeat]

Cheers Larry. I might get round to an update today. I'll post back any observations for anyone who's interested.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

Cheers Larry. I might get round to an update today. I'll post back any observations for anyone who's interested.

HI sb…

I followed the on-line instructions on the site, and it was easy.

I used the same SD card I set up for mine to update my friends ToneDexter as well.

[gfirob]

I have updated mine and there have been no issues, though I intend to redo the four wav maps I have in place for the four different guitar I use with it. Very simple to do.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by gfirob

I have updated mine and there have been no issues, though I intend to redo the four wav maps I have in place for the four different guitar I use with it. Very simple to do.

Hi g-fi…

Yup, I'm still in the re-record waveforms cycle.

After pulling 4 waveforms of my main guitars, after my first gig with each, I've eliminated a voice, and redone two others (I have 4 decent samples from 3 mic positions of each).

Sure liking the ToneDexter live.

I was in the middle of a semi aggressive band with acoustic drums and the lead player had a stage amp the other night, and my acoustic (sounding like it self) was nice and clear (yet full) in the mix. One minute sound check kind of a night, and it performed like a champ.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I was in the middle of a semi aggressive band with acoustic drums and the lead player had a stage amp the other night, and my acoustic (sounding like it self) was nice and clear (yet full) in the mix. One minute sound check kind of a night, and it performed like a champ.

I forget the name of the knob on the TD, but what ratio of pickup-to-Tonedexter were you using?

Asking because I mix FOH and struggle with making TD's sound good in a band context.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I forget the name of the knob on the TD, but what ratio of pickup-to-Tonedexter were you using?

Asking because I mix FOH and struggle with making TD's sound good in a band context.

I mix a Celtic/trad/country band and the guitarist uses a Fishman Aura blender which I out him onto years ago. I've been waving my TD in front of him from time to time but, to be honest, I don't think his style and the context (electric bass and drums) is right to get the most benefit. If it were him along with double bass and bodhran I expect it would be ideal or even a more nuanced player in his existing setup I would suggest it but as it stands I don't think he could justify the expense.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I forget the name of the knob on the TD, but what ratio of pickup-to-Tonedexter were you using?

Asking because I mix FOH and struggle with making TD's sound good in a band context.

"Character" knob.

You have said you have problems with TD when mixing a number of times now, but I have no idea what you are doing, the guitarist does...could literally be anything...so why don't you make a few videos on your phone to show us next time?

Here is my take - others are welcome to jump in, as I am only guessing!

Ask guitarist which mic they used?

Guitar : pickup - passive quiet (Fishman plain undersaddle needs midnight on the TD gain knob where a Element or Anthem or pickup with preamp can be very loud - they also have volume knobs to make a whole row of gain to gain to gain.....)

It depends very much which pickup the guitar has to which setting is used.
- Passive Fishman undersaddle = lots of TD - Channel 0 on the character knob???

- K&K = not so much TD needed - about 9 o'clock on the character knob??? I have also got a nice sound of the K&K through 'Bypass' on the TD...the preamp seems to be a good match for the impedance.

If they are playing through an Anthem or dual source, again, try 'Bypass'

Line out: which is being used - 1/4" jack has variable level, balanced while the XLR is a DI fixed level balanced. I myself would go for the DI and if their is too much juice coming out, get the output levels and pickup level trim adjusted.

Direct to mixer desk? Guitarist has amp?

Is this a solo singer/guitar setting or a band jam? Most of those I have been to have been too loud. Maybe turn down overall and bring the other instruments down. Maybe check the gain on the guitar channel and pull it back... And turn the reverb off. Run EQ flat.

Like I said, I am not there, so just hopelessly guessing, so get us a video. Whole sound then sneak up to the TD and show us the settings - photos!


BluesKing777.

[Doug Young]

I finally got around to upgrading to 1.62. I'd been running a beta test version that lead up to this release, and it worked well, so I was in no rush. But I had a new guitar/pickup to train, so this seemed like the time. All went fine, the most notable thing about the new software is how incredibly fast it trains. Character knob seems better behaved too. Scroll mode seems like a nice addition for some cases, tho I don't see myself using it.

There was one interesting change that probably most people won't run into. I was training a Barbera Soloist, and I forgot that I had to train with every other string, due to the Barbera's elements being out of phase. With older firmware, TD would just get stuck on this pickup if I didn't do it right. So I'd think "why isn't the training advancing?" for a second until the brain cells kicked in and I remembered. The latest algorithm doesn't care, it advances super fast even if I play all the strings, BUT, the results are terrible. Very low level and kind of phasey sounding. Had me stumped for a minute, since TD seemed to train just fine, which let me totally forget about this oddity with the Barbera. Suddenly the bell went off, and I retrained playing only 1st, 3rd, and 5th strings, and everything was happy.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

You have said you have problems with TD when mixing a number of times now, but I have no idea what you are doing, the guitarist does...could literally be anything...so why don't you make a few videos on your phone to show us next time?

I think some of us who use TD successfully should make a road trip to Brent's open mic and see what's going on with that :-). There's no reason someone presenting a good guitar sound should pose a mix problem, while a bad guitar sound works well. I can only guess that people are showing up with some really badly trained TDs - tho that's hard to do. A signal from ToneDexter should put a smile on the sound guy's face. If it doesn't, something's wrong somewhere...

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I think some of us who use TD successfully should make a road trip to Brent's open mic and see what's going on with that :-). There's no reason someone presenting a good guitar sound should pose a mix problem, while a bad guitar sound works well. I can only guess that people are showing up with some really badly trained TDs - tho that's hard to do. A signal from ToneDexter should put a smile on the sound guy's face. If it doesn't, something's wrong somewhere...

[With apologies for derailing my own topic]

That would be an interesting mission.

I have used my TD in my role as sound-tech with four unsuspecting fiddle players and I reckon the results have been pretty successful. Three out of the four expressed a preference for their original piezo sound, one even defended his un-EQ'd unholy scratch against the advice of myself and every other band member (ours is not to reason why).

The one most accepting of the TD was one who is accustomed to a DPA mic, the others have just normalised and become accustomed to the piezo character.

It just goes to show that one wo/man's perfect mix (in this case mine and the correct one) is another wo/man's over-clean "not my sound" tame effort (in this case the failure of a very un-self aware diva to consider those having to endure his unmusical noise - but the band pay for me to agree, so I agree).

P.S. This is a slightly tongue-in-cheek rant which shouldn't really be taken too seriously.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I think some of us who use TD successfully should make a road trip to Brent's open mic and see what's going on with that :-).

Come on down! Good chance you'll meet Charmed Life Picks (Scott Memmer) there, as well. But don't bring your TD; the venue has recently nixed pedals, keyboards, backing tracks, and performers' own amps and mics on open mic night. Not my doing. It's all in the interest of efficiency, trying to get 30 or so performers on and off in two and a half hours.

There's no reason someone presenting a good guitar sound should pose a mix problem, while a bad guitar sound works well.

I'd like to think that, but I've mixed enough live and recorded bands to know that it doesn't always work that way. I'd also like to think that a TD'ized guitar wouldn't fight tooth and nail with a vocal in a PA mix. And I'd thirdly like to think that a PA system's tweeters wouldn't treat a Dextered treble component so rudely. But here we are.

The ToneDexter and the new Baggs dealio (and there will be more) are here to stay. I'm working on my coping skills.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Like I said, I am not there, so just hopelessly guessing, so get us a video. Whole sound then sneak up to the TD and show us the settings - photos!

There's never enough time to do what I already do.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Come on down! Good chance you'll meet Charmed Life Picks (Scott Memmer) there, as well. But don't bring your TD; the venue has recently nixed pedals, keyboards, backing tracks, and performers' own amps and mics on open mic night. Not my doing. It's all in the interest of efficiency, trying to get 30 or so performers on and off in two and a half hours.

Yeah, that's how most open mics I am familiar with work. There's no time for sound checks, setup, definitely not messing with plugging in pedals. They're equal-opportunity situations, everyone gets to sound bad :-)

I'd like to think that, but I've mixed enough live and recorded bands to know that it doesn't always work that way. I'd also like to think that a TD'ized guitar wouldn't fight tooth and nail with a vocal in a PA mix. And I'd thirdly like to think that a PA system's tweeters wouldn't treat a Dextered treble component so rudely. But here we are.

The ToneDexter and the new Baggs dealio (and there will be more) are here to stay. I'm working on my coping skills.

So if you were mixing a band in the studio, with the guitar well mic'd, is that a problem? For some reason, a guitar that sounds natural doesn't blend with a vocal - you need quack somehow? How do people who record guitar nicely (say James Taylor) manage it? Just trying to figure out what the issue is, since I've never wanted a pickup guitar sound, studio or live.

I especially don't understand the tweeter issue - raw pickups thru bad tweeters should sound painful. There's something odd going on if ToneDexter sounds worse with bad tweeters than a raw pickup does. ToneDexter generally cuts the highs quite a bit. I've yet to hear ToneDexter sound bad thru any half-way decent PA. Maybe you can capture a recording of what's going on. It would be interesting to understand.

Drifting from the thread topic....