GURIAN Neck Replacement or Reset: 3 Expert Luthiers

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

At our shop we have plenty of experience talking to folks who have custom necks or other features on guitars they want to sell because what they thought was perfect at the time turned out not to fit their needs later. Just saying'. . .

I'm reading you LOUD AND CLEAR. And thanks.

I'm convinced there really are no coincidences, and finances being what they are at present is probably a blessing in disguise - a fine opportunity for me to 'stink about dis' a while longer.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by BothHands

Would YOU, as a custom builder, be willing to implement Trevor Gore's neck joint - the version wherein the entire neck structure pivots as a unit to maintain correct, adjustable alignment with the bridge and saddle?

I don't know who actually originated the idea, but it is now relatively common. Taylor, for example, does this:http://www.taylorguitars.com/media/t...r-nt-neck-pt-1

I'm seriously considering the adjustable neck arrangement for future instruments. I see no down-side from a structural or sound perspective.

I guess one drawback might be a potential reduction in resonance/vibration as compared to a traditional neck joint.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence to support that. Nor does there seem to be any evidence to suggest the arrangement is less stable.


Regarding the replace vs. repair decision, it's a personal one that each person must make for oneself. I wasn't making a value judgement regarding whether you ought to "repair" your guitar or replace it.

[riverrummed]

This is a fascinating thread for me. I acquired a Gurian JM about ten years ago and just loved the tone the thing had. It was lightly gigged by a guy down in Ft. Collins and it reminded me a lot of an old Gibson. On a whim, I gave it to my best friend from high school after it living at his house in NC for when I came for Merlefest for many years. It is a killer instrument and after a playing it a bit I could get used to the 1 5/8" but there is always that nagging "what if" jonesing for 1 3/4". Even though it is no longer my guitar, as I read this thread I asked myself how much I'd pay to have a new neck made and installed and the number $1000 came immediately to mind. With all the CNC around and some pretty talented builders I would think there are some luthiers out there that could take on the task. Ever since I heard of Scot Baxendale doing reworks of Harmony Sovereigns I've became fascinated by this kind of "re-cycling". I hope more experienced builders/luthiers weigh in here and add some more perspectives. My feeling is that if the original Gurian attachment system was good enough to last this long why not just build another neck with the same attachment system and put it on the guitar!? I don't have a bias against bolt on but ultimately the cheapest method that securely gets the job done would be acceptable to me.

[wade63]

hum...I have big hands and fat fingers and yet I have no problem playing my Gurian. Even as I typed this I grabbed it and did the 5 fret stretch, no problem, lucky I guess.

[BothHands]

I added Frank Ford / Gryphon Stringed Instruments to the list of Luthiers in opening post.

Per Mr Ford's comments in posts #2 and #6.

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by riverrummed

[...] I acquired a Gurian JM about ten years ago [...] I gave it to my best friend from high school [...] It is a killer instrument and after a playing it a bit I could get used to the 1 5/8" but there is always that nagging "what if" jonesing for 1 3/4".

Amen. I much prefer a 1-3/4" nut, but am able to make my Gurian neck work (at 1-21/32", halfway between 1-5/8 and 1-11/16"). It just takes more finesse and concentration.

Originally Posted by riverrummed

Even though it is no longer my guitar [...] I asked myself how much I'd pay to have a new neck made and installed and the number $1000 came immediately to mind.

One of the listed Luthiers can get close to that figure.

Originally Posted by riverrummed

With all the CNC around and some pretty talented builders I would think there are some luthiers out there that could take on the task.

Amen, again.

Originally Posted by riverrummed

[...] My feeling is that if the original Gurian attachment system was good enough to last this long why not just build another neck with the same attachment system and put it on the guitar!? I don't have a bias against bolt on but ultimately the cheapest method that securely gets the job done would be acceptable to me.

I read and studied Frank Ford's FRETS.COM Gurian Neck Reset Tutorial for about a year before encountering Bill Cumpiano's bolt-on design. During that period I thought exactly as you describe:

1. Remove the two ebony pins, melt the fretboard-to-top glue and pull the neck.

2. Build a new neck and drill the two pin holes through its tenon in precisely the same location as the originals (I think I could do it using only a small milling machine, no fancy CNC, etc).

3. Install the new neck and press the original ebony pins back in.

I think that's entirely possible, and shouldn't be ridiculously expensive. But the added advantage of bolt-on removal and perhaps even the ability to adjust the geometry via hardware is awfully hard to resist(!)

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by wade63

hum...I have big hands and fat fingers and yet I have no problem playing my Gurian. Even as I typed this I grabbed it and did the 5 fret stretch, no problem, lucky I guess.

I think the techniques you use and the kind of music you play are also important factors:

Are you an accompanist or a true instrumentalist?

Soloist, lead player or rhythm?

Strum with fingers or with flat pick?

Melodic lines with flat pick or fingers?

Lead riffs or full chords, barre chords, partial chords/intervals or individual notes?

Bend, hammer-on, pull-off, slide, harmonics?

Rock, jazz, folk, country, world, fusion, pop, traditional, Latin, etc?

And the list goes on and on. My Gurian is exceptional for some of those applications...but not for others.

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

[...] it is now relatively common. Taylor, for example, does this:http://www.taylorguitars.com/media/t...r-nt-neck-pt-1

I'm seriously considering the adjustable neck arrangement for future instruments. I see no down-side from a structural or sound perspective.
[...] Nor does there seem to be any evidence to suggest the arrangement is less stable.

Great video. Thanks. I'm aware that Taylor necks are bolt-on, but I didn't know about their micro-adjust shims. I've used similar means to adjust the rake (downward angle of buttstock) on sporting shotguns to fit individual shooters. Application to guitar necks makes excellent sense, and as long as there's no loss in sound quality, I'm IN.

But why don't I like Taylor guitars?

I've played Taylors in the $1500 to $4000 range, and while some are very nice, I walk away feeling like "something's missing". Frankly, I've always attributed it to "CNC Perfection Syndrome", and having seen that video I think maybe I'm right. I just hope whatever I'm sensing is not what you get with a bolt-on neck and shims.

For me, there's just something sterile about the Taylors I've experienced. Like the guitar version of Stepford Wives...

Thanks for this online education.

[scottcw]

Originally Posted by riverrummed

... I asked myself how much I'd pay to have a new neck made and installed and the number $1000 came immediately to mind.

This is about what I would pay. Anything more and I would settle for capo at 2nd or 3rd fret.

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by scottcw

This is about what I would pay. Anything more and I would settle for capo at 2nd or 3rd fret.

One problem with slack strings compensated by capo is that your strings (and your overall tone) lose so much punch. For some applications I like that sound, and I nearly always prefer the ease-of-play with the strings in that condition, but it seems wasteful considering the sonic capabilities/potential of a good Gurian guitar.

And then there's the confusion of side markers that are in the wrong locations at certain capo positions. I've been playing 'up the neck' a lot more in recent years, so I rely on those markers quite a bit.

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by BothHands

Would YOU, as a custom builder, be willing to implement Trevor Gore's neck joint - the version wherein the entire neck structure pivots as a unit to maintain correct, adjustable alignment with the bridge and saddle?

I reckon you would have to get that off Trevor if you want his style of tilt neck (his adjust with a knob inside the sound hole that you turn with your fingers, no tool needed), He won't give that one up and I have tried to dig it out of him a couple of times cause I am curious. Mind you I have got more guitar making information off Trevor than you can poke a stick at so I can't complain. There are quite a few variations on tilt necks though and there is always your own ideas.

Jim

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

I reckon you would have to get that off Trevor if you want his style of tilt neck (his adjust with a knob inside the sound hole that you turn with your fingers, no tool needed)

Wow. Assuming the knob does what it should, it doesn't get any better than that.

What do Trevor Gore guitars sell for in the United States (IF they're sold at all in the US)?

His MEDIUM SIZED Steel String Concert Classical would be my choice, appearing at the of THIS WEB PAGE.

I see that guitar listed for sale HERE, apparently in or near Sydney, Australia. The asking price is $4999. Is that Ozzie currency or US dollars?


I sold my old Moog synth to a fellow in New South Wales last year. The delivery and customs costs were a CRUSHER. So I'm assuming purchase of this guitar by an American would buh-LUDDY EXPENSIVE. Can you offer any advice?

PS. I watched the photo slide show for Steel String guitars on Mr Gore's website. Man!!!

[Jim.S]

You have found Trevor's web site, he has contact information there so if you are interested you may as well go straight to the horses mouth.

Jim

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

You have found Trevor's web site, he has contact information there so if you are interested you may as well go straight to the horses mouth.

I usually end up at the other end of the horse.

I'm reluctant to trouble Mr Gore at this point because I'm not in a position to purchase one of his fine instruments...though I guess it wouldn't hurt to establish a preliminary baseline as groundwork for a potential U.S. purchase.

Thanks, Jim, and I hope you're enjoying Life there in Oz. That's the one place I'd really like to live, if not in The United States. In fact, I'd probably try to emigrate but for those draconian gun laws...

[printer2]

Originally Posted by BothHands

I see that guitar listed for sale HERE, apparently in or near Sydney, Australia. The asking price is $4999. Is that Ozzie currency or US dollars?

Picked up the two books he sells, they were in Australian dollars which surprised me. Didn't have to pay 10% more as the case with U.S. dollars.