Interesting article on guitar wood

[random works]

Students have souls?

[jeff crisp]

Originally Posted by random works

Students have souls?

Yes, normally two. Though I think it's spelt differently...but I could be wrong.

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

So . . . . And then there are those to whom Calkin's work is actually news, they always exist, and their education is much of the point here.

That's me, among, I suppose, others. I have to keep reminding myself that a lot of what I read in this group and could find argument with is just a how I would have thought a decade ago.

[highfigh]

Originally Posted by MrKellyGraham

Thank you for posting this. In my limited time on this board this has been one the more interesting posts I've come across.

Personally I suspect that a lot of players would be surprised at how poorly they would do in a blind audio test to determine the woods guitars are made from. People simply don't realize how much affect their beliefs have.

For years people believed women lacked the ability to match mens playing and so few of them made it into orchestra's. But low and behold once blind auditions became the norm the number of women who made the cut SKYROCKETED.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/a...3G00/index.xml
http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/97/0...orchestra.html

In blind tests audiophiles ability to discern the bit rate used in audio recordings is much lower than what they claim to need.

Heck audiophiles couldn't tell the difference between premium speaker wires and coat hangers--despite many claiming speaker wire impacts audio quality--in a blind test.

http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do...onster-cables/

Wood variations are such a simple way for guitar manufactures to create pricing levels I think they encourage the belief that certain woods are just "better".

I was talking about this kind of thing yesterday, at a local guitar shop. I commented on the fact that the 'cork sniffers' had gotten into guitars and he laughed.

Noel lee's son said "My father created a solution to a problem that didn't exist". Noel Lee is the founder of Monster Cable.

[highfigh]

Originally Posted by fazool

You can browse the Taylor website by series, shapes or woods.

If you click the "by woods" choice, there is a descriptive paragraph of each type. Some of them are specific, for example East Indian Rosewood is described as having a "scooped mid" which is very specific: if you adjust your graphic equalizer to a V shape, which lowers the prominence of the mid-frequencies, thats a "scooped mid".

You can look at some videos on Youtube of Bob Taylor going into the Alaskan wilderness to pick out wood from a fallen spruce, or the fact that they own an ebony supplier in Cameroon. I think they are one of the leading authorities on tonewood. They may not be the most boutique-luthier artisinal expert, but they have the experience of sheer volume and variety and access to tonewoods.

Bob Taylor did a famous demonstration where he made a guitar out of old pallets from the factory, to prove that good guitar making is largely due to the builder's skill.

That, however, doesn't negate the belief that certain woods will sound even better and some will simply sound different.

Again, I think its a question of degree. How much different is the wood vs. how much different the guitar will sound.

If you compare Madagascar, Honduran and East Indian Rosewoods, can you tell a real difference?

If you compare Sitka, Adirondack, Engelmenn Spruces, can you tell a real difference?

So, from that, you might conclude "the wood choice doesn't matter"

But, If you compare a guitar made of Brazilian Rosewood to a guitar made from balsa wood, you would absolutely have a massive difference. So, from that you might conclude "the wood choice is a massive factor!"

So, I believe that every family/type of wood has different properties.
I believe every different species, within that family, has different properties. I believe every individual tree of the same species is different.

Where my ability to distinguish between them lies, I think varies.

I can certainly tell the difference between mahogany and maple. I certainly cannot tell the difference between two different types of rosewood.

But every one is different, and some builders will amplify or mask the differences and some will build differently, so what we think is different may or may not be from the wood alone.

Thanks for the tips on whose videos and sites to look for.

I know about scooped- I have worked with audio equipment for about 40 years, including musical instrument gear- it's also the reason I have played through a Tweed Bassman for over 30 years.

I haven't done many comparisons to determine which species sounds "best" because too many variables exist in the size of any samples I would have access to. If I was in a guitar factory that uses extremely consistent methods, controls their own materials and environment, it would be a much better and more fair test, IMO. They would have come in as raw materials and would still be where they were manufactured, so they wouldn't have been affected by different temp/humidity, playing time, etc. I'd like to, though.

Having worked at a music store that sold Martin, Gibson, Guild and Ibanez, I was able to check out most of the guitars that came through- I was responsible for shipping/receiving and I also did a lot of initial setups. My first Ibanez was Indian Rosewood and it was very bright. I tried several brands and gauges, but they all sounded bright. I told one of the sales guys about my opinion and not long after, he asked if I was interested in trading it to someone else + some money for the one I still have, which is Spruce top (I'll have to find out which sub-specie), Mahogany back and sides- all solid. Much warmer, good top end and generally balanced, especially for fingerpicking.

I also work with wood of different species, both domestic and exotic. The one thing I have learned is that a piece of wood may come from the same board, but its resonant characteristics are still unique. Making a consistent product is where the craftsmanship rears its head.

[Jim.S]

After the first time I read this article some years ago, I went out and bought a chainsaw. The local trees (not found on any list of "tonewoods") were no longer safe.

Jim

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

After the first time I read this article some years ago, I went out and bought a chainsaw. The local trees (not found on any list of "tonewoods") were no longer safe.

Jim

So long as you take out the flame trees first, if there are any left.

[Clydeslide]

I love discussions like this, especially with people who are polite and open-minded.

My take is pretty similar to the majority, they make a difference but not a huge one and there are more important factors. My main guitar is BRW and I will admit to part of my choice being "BRW is the best and that's what I want". I spoke to the luthier and asked what I should have for the tone I wanted and the woods were what he suggested. I also know that well made BRW guitars are likely to only ever go up in price. The comment about vested interest is interesting but BRW costs what BRW costs, it's unlikely to go down even if it is no longer seen as the ultimate tonewood as only a small fraction of it is used in guitar production. you pay what the wood is worth, if it isn't worth it to you then you don't pay it. Maybe luthiers could chime in with how much of a mark-up they charge for certain woods, I'd guess it isn't really that much when compared to the total cost of the guitar.

As to the general discussion, different woods will have different densities/porosities etc. and as it is these woods that amplify the sound it stands to reason they must have some effect, how much I don't know.

In a fair (would need at least 50 guitars, although I think we'd all fail with as little as 10), double-blind test I think we would all fail to pick out the woods used by sound and possibly even if we played them.

At the end of the day all that matters is you have a guitar you are happy with and are happy with the price you paid.