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  #16  
Old 07-19-2012, 07:26 PM
crikey crikey is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueBird2 View Post
I just smacked a guitar and an electronic fell apart. I picked it up and flew it across the room. since it did not break, I stepped on it and toss it out from my front door. It flew across the street and landed on the concrete. May be I will smash my door next.
Let me guess. After you did that the guitar behaved.

Can't hit the string, just hit the guitar. That'll fix it.
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  #17  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:06 PM
BlueBird2 BlueBird2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi BBird...

Slow down the passage in which you are fumbling/missing notes till you can play without missing them. Play it a thousand times and as you nail the accuracy move the speed up.

When you can play them perfectly 10 times through while watching a show and/or talking with your wife, you have it.


Thank you. SLOWING DOWN helped. I even put it away and did not even look at it for few days. It helped me. I am now 10 times slower but .... I guess I am making less mistakes.
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  #18  
Old 07-19-2012, 08:27 PM
BlueBird2 BlueBird2 is offline
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Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Yes, smash a door. Smash the house to pieces. Don't smash the guitar.

Not even Pete Townshend smashed a guitar in anger (it was all showmanship).

Becoming a musician requires enormous patience. You need to relax and treat every difficulty as an exciting challenge, not as a frustration.
You have to ENJOY your practice, all the time, however long it takes. If you're not, you're doing something wrong.
Thank you......

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Do you get that feeling often in other areas of your life? Is it just the way you are, or something about learning the guitar?

Maybe it's what the teacher is giving you? Did you ever get so frustrated when learning on your own? (Personally, I never ever felt like that. But then I taught myself all the way; I never felt frustrated, let alone like smashing anything.)
It may be that he's giving you too much too soon. Or trying to get you out of a few bad habits you picked up (that can be annoying, realising you've got used to doing something the wrong way).

Next time you feel like that, just put the guitar down, take a few deep, slow breaths, and go off and do something else. You will learn nothing of any use when you're in that mood (or when you're bored with it), so practising is pointless.
I took your advice and did put it away for few days, now I am back on track. But at the time, I really wanted to smash and crash everything.... I do not know where the anger came from. Perhaps because I need help. I have been feeling sick and everything was falling apart. No, this does not happen often. Nothing is wrong with my teacher either.

I have actually met quite few who just crashed things when they got frustrated trying to learn something, but they never quit. I think quitting is worse than crashing.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:05 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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I suspect what happens is that your mind is getting ahead of your fingers. I know the feeling of getting "smash-it-up!" angry in other areas of life - only very briefly, but I think it's part of being human. It's always when some stupid little thing goes wrong - and then goes wrong again, despite your best efforts. Something really simple suddenly decides to make itself really complicated .
I'm a naturally patient guy, so these experiences are rare for me, and never a problem (they pass quickly), but I do know that the answer is a bit of self-analysis and a sense of humour. Often they're the kind of things that are hilarious when you see someone else suffer from them, like slapstick comedy. Inaminate objects acquiring a cantankerous life of their own.
In my experience it happens when I get absent minded for some reason; my mind shoots ahead on some other track, because I think the task I'm involved in shouldn't take much concentration. But of course it does, I trip up, and feel stupid. How could I be so dumb!!

If this is ringing a bell, the answer is always to approach the guitar with proper attention. Don't have anything else on your mind. Take it slow and steady, and don't have any goal you have to reach, anything you have to master by the end of the practice session. Just make it recreation, an escape from the other pressures of life. IOW, playing guitar should be the opposite of pressure; so don't impose pressure on it yourself. It's not a race, not a competition. Listen to every single note, how beautiful it is... One note played well is worth more than a dozen notes played clumsily.
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:10 AM
saxonblue saxonblue is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnnySmash View Post
Never felt that way about a guitar - a computer - that's another story. Johnny
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kickboxing.
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  #21  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:20 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by saxonblue View Post
a computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kickboxing.
LOL.......

(I only put the dots because 10 characters are demanded )
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2012, 09:03 AM
jaxpiersurfer jaxpiersurfer is offline
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Finally someone feels like me.I have had a few guitars one of which I did flip out and end up pulling a Kurt Cobain (still regret that). I have been practicing for 3 months now (serious practice) and I've noticed a few improvements. Mostly I struggle but every now and then I get to say to myself "I got that right!" I guess just tons of patience. I'm 40 and the learning curve is aimed downward for me so I have to take things in really small chunks. I learned the intro to Soul to Squeeze,I can nail it now but literally I hat to learn 4 to 5 note pieces but began to put it all together. I play everything slow at first sometimes super slow then when I can get it right I begin to speed it up.... Persistance I've learned is really important.

Last edited by jaxpiersurfer; 09-16-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2012, 12:21 AM
SpiderTrap SpiderTrap is offline
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Default The First Years

the First ten or so years are the the most frustrating. i think thats why many have long periods of no playing , AND thus do not progress as rapidly . true in my case . My first guitar i believe was a very cheep harmony I ended up smashing to pieces after about a year ( age 20 - Year 1969) . My second guitar was a cheep Epi dread about 5 years later ...beginning the learning process again and getting frustrated . i wanted a better guitar so I set it on fire and watched it burn . almost ritualistic...from thence - I've treated my instruments with care and they've provided much enjoyment . You do crazy things in your young frustrated years ... then you grow up ... or most of us do ...

Last edited by SpiderTrap; 09-19-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2012, 06:34 AM
satts satts is offline
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I get cranky and lose my temper but never thought of smashing a guitar. They are like women.
I did, however, recently lose my temper with my computer mouse which just wouldn't function well. I picked up a pair of scissors and cut it off. It actually now looked like a mouse (with the tail). I show my 9 year old boy and we rolled around on the floor for ten minutes. Well worth the cost of a new mouse.
Don't hit guitars, treat 'em rough, play 'em hard but just don't hit them.
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2012, 07:46 AM
oldhippiegal oldhippiegal is offline
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I think it is common to want to act out anger and frustration. It's a sign of maturity to not do so. I think, at age 57, I'm finally getting there.

At the extreme end, young Robert Schumann got frustrated with his progress at piano playing while studying with Frederich Wieck and smashed his fingers--ended his playing career...but then he moved on to composing. And died in a mental institution in his 40's, starving himself to death. Try not to be that extreme. Actions taken in anger cannot be taken back.

I agree with the advice to have fun. Sure, challenge yourself ten or fifteen minutes a day with working on a new skill, but also just play a half hour a day, or at least every other day, songs you know, two and three chord songs you can sing to.

If you stick with it, and improve, improvement starts to slow down further. As an intermediate guitarist, you'll find months of work go by with little obvious progress in skill level.

It's a difficult instrument. With a pick and three open chords, most people can learn to play something in a week. But to get good at it? Many thousands of hours of work are required.
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  #26  
Old 09-23-2012, 07:06 AM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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Have I felt like that? Heck I did smash a guitar one time It was a crappy Yamaha..... the worst part was it didn't break the first or second smash.... it was really hard to break it... those Yamahas are tuff
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  #27  
Old 09-23-2012, 07:51 PM
harryvanda harryvanda is offline
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I get this from time to time. Often taking a different approach helps (sometimes putting the guitar away is the different approach) what I mean is playing upto the your sticking point from a different point in the tune/exercise. Your muscles and brain will view it slightly differently than trying to repeat exactly the same thing over and over.

Then again sometimes I find chords disappear off the fretboard with stuff I've played so many times, completely confidently and the chord is nowhere to be found!!!
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2020, 05:04 AM
sirroco sirroco is offline
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I honestly believe things come naturally to some and not to others. I personally know two people that started playing in bands 2-3 years after picking up a guitar AND they are good! I most certainly can't afford to wait 20 years (48 now) or more like some have said on here.. I'm wondering if those people actually realised after 5 years of hard toil they were not going to make the heights they aspired to? I am not disparaging anyone from playing the guitar as I love it myself. However no matter how much 'good' practice and lessons over the years I've had, I won't be aggravating other musicians by attempting to jam with them. A good analogy... I have a single figure handicap in golf and do not practice. I didn't have any lessons either.. I would do anything to swap golf for guitar. Rhythm and timing among other things in a golf swing came naturally, similarly with a guitar. One of the guys I mentioned playing in a band after a couple of years wanted me to teach him how to play golf.. Lets just say he is equally good at golf as I am playing a guitar. The fact is you cannot simulate natural feel. A little like teaching a narcissist to feel empathy. I have heard Noel Gallagher say countless times that he is hopeless at everything other than writing songs and playing guitar. I have most certainly had visions of shredding my guitar into match sticks but as rubbish as I am playing it, I love it. You just have to accept sometimes 'It is what it is'
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  #29  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:16 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Necro-bump! But anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirroco View Post
I honestly believe things come naturally to some and not to others. I personally know two people that started playing in bands 2-3 years after picking up a guitar AND they are good!
I started playing in a band 10 months after picking up a guitar. Was I good? No, not then. Why would that have stopped me?
I mean, I was good enough - meaning I could strum 3 or 4 chords in time. That was all that was necessary, at that point. We were all pals and the band was our "gang".
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirroco View Post
I most certainly can't afford to wait 20 years (48 now) or more like some have said on here.
If anyone did say that, that's idiotic. (They're probably not here any more, so they won't be offended.) That amount of time may be what it takes to become a world-class virtuoso, but you can get that good in just 10 years (maybe even less) if you practice properly. And if you want to enough. Very few people want to enough, even if they think they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirroco View Post
I'm wondering if those people actually realised after 5 years of hard toil they were not going to make the heights they aspired to?
I never spent any "years of hard toil". If you think of playing the guitar as "hard toil", you're doing it wrong. It's no wonder you're not getting anywhere.

In fact if you start off "aspiring to great heights" that's probably the wrong attitude too. As a teenage beginner I obviously had fantasies of stardom, but I knew that's all they were. But I was playing guitar because I liked it. It was recreation, not "work". It was time off from the "toil" I might have been otherwise involved in (school, day job). I spent as much time as I did practising because I enjoyed it. Not because I thought I had to or I wouldn't get any better. Of course, I did get better, but that was almost an accidental by-product.
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Originally Posted by sirroco View Post
I am not disparaging anyone from playing the guitar as I love it myself. However no matter how much 'good' practice and lessons over the years I've had, I won't be aggravating other musicians by attempting to jam with them.
Well, that's a valid choice, it's not for everyone. But you undoubtedly have the technical skills necessary, at least for an informal amateur jam - if you actually wanted to do it, and had the opportunity.
What you may lack is improvisational vocabulary, because - like anything - improvisation requires practice to get better at it. It's not about being to play fast or knowing lots of scales. It's about having ideas in the first place. It's more about attitude than technique.
In the first week I owned a guitar, I composed four tunes. Were they any good? Of course not. But I saw no reason why I shouldn't have a go. It's like having a new toy: you play with it, see what it can do. You don't have to be taught how to do it (I wasn't). You mess around, try stuff, keep what sounds good, discard what doesn't. Same with improvisation (composition on the spot). We're all crap at it to start with. But the more you do it - the more you allow yourself to try it - the better you get.

Still - not every great musician is either a composer or improviser, or has to be. Some virtuosos never write or compose anything, they enjoy playing other people's music too much.

By the way, in case you're wondering: I had zero musical "talent". A non-musical family, and a worse musical ear than average. Excluded from the school choir for having no idea how to pitch my voice. No interest in music at all until the age of 13 or so, and then no interest in actually playing anything until over 15. And I probably would still have had no interest if my closest school friends weren't all amateur musicians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirroco View Post
A good analogy... I have a single figure handicap in golf and do not practice. I didn't have any lessons either.. I would do anything to swap golf for guitar. Rhythm and timing among other things in a golf swing came naturally, similarly with a guitar. One of the guys I mentioned playing in a band after a couple of years wanted me to teach him how to play golf.. Lets just say he is equally good at golf as I am playing a guitar. The fact is you cannot simulate natural feel. A little like teaching a narcissist to feel empathy. I have heard Noel Gallagher say countless times that he is hopeless at everything other than writing songs and playing guitar. I have most certainly had visions of shredding my guitar into match sticks but as rubbish as I am playing it, I love it. You just have to accept sometimes 'It is what it is'
Right. A lot of so-called "natural feel" just comes from starting young enough. I think the idea that some people just "lack talent" is often an excuse for laziness. Or rather, a handy explanation for why one gets bored or frustrated with playing, why one sometimes feels one can't improve beyond a certain point. You run out of enthusiasm, you wonder why you're doing it if (a) no one appreciates it, or (b) you can't think of a situation where you could really use this skill. Maybe you think that all those that can "do it" are just so much better than you that it would take an unimaginable length of time to get there, by which time you'd be too old.
That's a result of not being in a musical "community": not having friends who are in a similar position, and only ever witnessing professional musicians in the media or on record. In comparison with them, obviously you're a clumsy no-hoper.

IMO, if such a thing as "talent" exists, it's that ability to devote oneself to one activity, for considerable amounts of time, because it's personally rewarding. Other people's opinions of how good/bad you are at it are of no account whatsoever. You know it's what you want to do, and there's nothing else you want to do anywhere near as much. You don't compare yourself to anyone better than you, except to treat them as inspirations. It's the same attitude you see in great athletes, or great artists, or great scientists. I.e., the "talent" itself is not in any specific sphere, it's the basic single-minded attitude or personality. The specific activity chosen would depend on some inspiring childhood or teenage influence.

Those who get really good at - the professional virtuosos - are people who would give up friends and family to play guitar, if that choice was forced on them. They might give up food and sleep if they could. Those people never have to be persuaded to practice. They have to be persuaded to stop practising sometimes.
They would certainly never think of what they do as "hard toil". They might call it "work" sometimes, but it's the most enjoyable and absorbing "work" imaginable. Actually, I think a lot of time musicians refer to practice as "work" as a way of letting non-musicians think they're not "just playing", because to non-musicians "playing" is something that kids do, and an unproductive waste of time for an adult. "Honestly I'm really not just playing [= enjoying myself] here, I'm practising."

IOW, one tip is to regard "playing" as a fundamental human activity, at any age. Play is how we learn, any topic or activity at any age. We can be taught things of course, but it's in messing around with that information, those techniques, that we learn. Just parroting what we're taught is not really learning. We have to play, to make it our own - and obviously that's even more the case in any creative sphere, whether that's music, art, sport, writing, programming...

Oh ... I guess I should add that I never became famous. So maybe my attitude was wrong all along... I barely make a living from it now. But music has still been the best thing in my life for the last 54 years (and counting) - a handful of girlfriends along the way might not like me saying that, but I think they'd still agree. You can judge my skills (FWIW) from a few videos if you want. (Links provided on request)
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Last edited by JonPR; 01-07-2020 at 07:22 AM.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:25 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Oh yes, I certainly had that reaction - frustration at my limitations visited upon a perfectly good instrument. "a bad workman always blames his tools" etc.

I don't think I ever actually did it but I got close.
There was a situation that stopped me reacting like that.
I was playing in a bluegrass band with a talented but volatile mando player - a weight trainer of impressive build.

One day, whilst rehearsing in his house he ripped of his F5 mandolin (copy) breaking the leather strap and threw it across the room.
He was renowned in the local music community for such fits of rage.

He demonstrated to me how not to handle such moments of frustration.
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